dead on arrival - online company won't collect or refund appliance

bobbidyboo

born_again said: 

Consumer protection is open to all, rich & poor. You pay the same to enforce.

While you claim consumer protection is open to all, the fact that everyone must pay the same to enforce it highlights that it's not accessible to those who are financially or time-constrained.

bobbidyboo

born_again said:

In reality a chargeback could fail, as the retailer has 45 days to contest non return of item. So if you move & leave it in public area & it disappears, they will reject the chargeback & you will have lost the cost of the item.

You speak a lot of what cannot be done but not much on what can be done.

So far people on this forum state this is what should be done in this situation:
1. remind the shop of section 20 of 2015 consumer rights act. (which might fail)
2. chargeback with bank (which might fail)
3. pay potentially £hundreds or £thousands to transport & store the large appliance (worth £300) indefinitely until a court appearance happens. Take unpaid time off work to research how to apply to the court. Wait potentially months or years for the court appearance to occur. Take unpaid time off work to go to the court appearance. In all this time, the potential loss to the consumer is £thousands, many of whom are on low wage, with two jobs, who simply don't have these options.

tightauldgit said:

There's no magic words to force someone to comply with what you want. 

A lot of the responses here on this forum have been worded with an unhelpful attitude with little to no understanding of the lives of many people, using statements like the above, which could have been worded: "unfortunately the law is lacking when it comes to enforcement and the only option available to us as consumers is to take the shop to the small claims court, which obviously isn't an option for many (time / money etc.). Here is the link for small claims court applications: [insert link here]. If it's only worth £300 just bear in mind that the cost of storage & transport might cost more than you get back. It's a sad state of affairs but that's the way things are in the UK right now."

You see how little it takes to alter that moneysavingexpert.com forum response into a helpful one? Sadly reminded of why I rarely post on this forum anymore.

Alderbank

Nobody (except you!) has said

• pay potentially £hundreds or £thousands to transport & store the large appliance
• Take unpaid time off work to research...
• Take unpaid time off work to go to the court appearance.

@born_again gave you valuable advice about how the banks deal with chargeback.

I said you bought this unit in anticipation of an imminent house move. You would have had a plan for moving it to your new place. Stick with that plan

powerful_Rogue

bobbidyboo said:

born_again said:

In reality a chargeback could fail, as the retailer has 45 days to contest non return of item. So if you move & leave it in public area & it disappears, they will reject the chargeback & you will have lost the cost of the item.

You speak a lot of what cannot be done but not much on what can be done.

So far people on this forum state this is what should be done in this situation:
1. remind the shop of section 20 of 2015 consumer rights act. (which might fail)
2. chargeback with bank (which might fail)
3. pay potentially £hundreds or £thousands to transport & store the large appliance (worth £300) indefinitely until a court appearance happens. Take unpaid time off work to research how to apply to the court. Wait potentially months or years for the court appearance to occur. Take unpaid time off work to go to the court appearance. In all this time, the potential loss to the consumer is £thousands, many of whom are on low wage, with two jobs, who simply don't have these options.

tightauldgit said:

There's no magic words to force someone to comply with what you want. 

A lot of the responses here on this forum have been worded with an unhelpful attitude with little to no understanding of the lives of many people, using statements like the above, which could have been worded: "unfortunately the law is lacking when it comes to enforcement and the only option available to us as consumers is to take the shop to the small claims court, which obviously isn't an option for many (time / money etc.). Here is the link for small claims court applications: [insert link here]. If it's only worth £300 just bear in mind that the cost of storage & transport might cost more than you get back. It's a sad state of affairs but that's the way things are in the UK right now."

You see how little it takes to alter that moneysavingexpert.com forum response into a helpful one? Sadly reminded of why I rarely post on this forum anymore.

In fairness, you've never posted to help anyone in your time on here. You've come on here just to seek answers. Nothing wrong in that, but it's a bit harsh to then start criticising the free advice you have been given. Maybe you'd be better of seeking paid legal advice instead.

bobbidyboo

Update to this: 

I've emailed and called the online shop many times in the last 2 weeks.

No progress toward a collection.

No progress toward a refund.

I received an email from the online shop again today asking for copies of photos that I've already sent several times- they either lost them or different staff don't know what they're doing. I attached the images again.

I received a message from another staff member just repeating that they've requested collection from the supplier.

My point about section 20 of the consumer rights act 2015 has been ignored. It seems they don't care about the fact they aren't obeying the law.

bobbidyboo

UPDATE:

the online retailer continues to tell me they're "sorry for the issue you have encountered", says they've asked their supplier to collect it but their supplier is not responding.

I've repeatedly informed the online retailer of the consumer rights act 2015 section 20 and also provided a link and a quote of it to them. They repeatedly ignore it.

I just wanted to say I will not be responding to toxic comments as I asked here for help & want this to have a positive outcome for others who might need help. I've done research elsewhere. Here are some more steps to follow when an online retailer isn't playing ball (that hasn't been mentioned in this thread):

- check if you can use 'alternative dispute resolution' (ADR) and if so then send your complaint to the seller’s ADR scheme. I haven't yet found a way to check this- if I do, I'll update here for anyone it helps.

- If the seller doesn’t have an ADR scheme, complain here:

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumer/complaints.htm

- If the above don't work, the last resort is to take them to court (small claims court) but this is only worth it for particularly expensive items. For a large item that might end up costing more in storage / transport than you'd receive back by refund, unfortunately there is currently no protection in UK law contrary to widespread belief. Below is a link to help with small claims if you have an expensive item that doesn't require expensive storage/transport:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/small-claims/making-a-small-claim/

I hope the above helps someone. I apologise for not responding to some comments above but will not respond to more toxic comments or fuel the trolls, no matter whether they're regular longstanding members or not, it's unaccaptable in a forum dedicated to helping people. I will however respond to constructive or factual comments.

PHK

I'm not sure how complaining to the FOS will help with an online seller. They deal with complaints about financial firms that are on the FCA register not with retail disputes about goods.

Where did this advice come from?

The citizens advice is what you were told earlier in the thread. There is no protection in law unfortunately  

born_again

Sadly retailers do not have to have a complaints process or subscribe to ADR.

FOS only deals with Insurance & Financial companies. 

bobbidyboo

PHK said:

I'm not sure how complaining to the FOS will help with an online seller. They deal with complaints about financial firms that are on the FCA register not with retail disputes about goods.

Where did this advice come from?

The citizens advice is what you were told earlier in the thread. There is no protection in law unfortunately  

Thanks for the non-toxic helpful input. the advice came from citizen's advice. If what you're saying is true I guess I can't trust them either

I think it's a common misconception that consumers are protected in the UK with online purchases from big name shops. I hope this thread serves a purpose to demonstrate that for most of us in society who work full time and who don't have time or money to take shops to court we really are not protected.

bobbidyboo

UPDATE: 
As promised, another update to this, and I will continue to update unless mods shut the thread down (which I assume they won't considering this is a forum intended to help people), and I hope my continued updates help others out there.

- I have continued emailing the online retailer (a big name shop) & kept reminding them of consumer rights act 2015 section 20, giving them a link to it on gov.uk website and providing a direct quote in the email
- they replied saying they don't think they have to abide by it because the faulty item was delivered directly by their supplier to me
- I repeated that my contract is with them, the retailer, not their supplier
- they didn't reply
- I asked my bank to step in on the debit card front
- My bank asked for a copy of the email correspondence
- I sent them the emails, the bank sounded incredulous once they had seen the emails from the shop. They said they see this time and time again- retailers flouting the law and consumers left out of pocket, meanwhile shops getting away with it and not being shut down. (This is good info to note for those of us who think we're protected until it happens to us)
- Staff at the bank were very sympathetic and said they'll do their best to get the transaction reversed as the shop is clearly breaking the law but they can't guarantee that even if the bank refunds the money, they won't have to reverse the refund in the future. They also warned me that the shop (online retailer) might cause extra problems for me further down the line, after the bank refunds my money. I wonder what they meant by that?

Will continue to update as the situation develops