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Enterprise paid ParkingEye and sending me the bill

velvetyfrog
velvetyfrog Posts: 30 Forumite
Third Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
Hi all, 

I am absolutely fuming; I have won at least 5 POPLA appeals against ParkingEye in the past (thanks to this forum!), 3 of them in this same car park. So I know ParkingEye issue Golden tickets there and my win was guaranteed, had a hire car from Enterprise not been involved. 

Unlike my leasing company (who dutifuly send the hirer's details to ParkingEye every time), Enterprise decided to sit on the PCN for a while, and when it went up to £170 (presumably at collection stage), paid it. They only sent me a letter 3 months after the parking event, holding me responsible for just the £60 discounted fee, plus their £35 admin fee (which suggests they are accepting responsibility for the shortfall due to their failure to act in time). 

So my dispute is with Enterprise, not with ParkingEye (for a change!). Firstly, Enterprise believe they are right to charge me (as some unseen contract between them and me state that they can charge me for all they want - still waiting to see a copy of it as I never signed a contract - the hire car was a courtesy car paid for by my usual car's manufacturer, while mine was having warranty repairs). Secondly, they have not provided any information about the actual "violation" (and keep calling ParkingEye an "issuing authority", which annoys the hell out of me). All they have given me is the date of the "violation" (three months ago!), and a loose description of the venue (which I only recognise from previous PCNs I have had - it is not an actual address or place). They have given me ParkingEye's reference number and offered to give me letter of authority to dispute the fine with ParkingEye, however, as they have scuppered the grounds for POFA by paying the PCN, the only grounds remaining for dispute that that the car overstayed by 11 seconds! Which I am not holding my breath to win at POPLA.

Any advice from those with experience dealing with 1) hire companies that pay and then charge the hirer and 2) parking companies refunding paid PCNs and 3) POPLA success when overstaying 11 seconds after the required grace period of 10 minutes?

If not, feel free to tell me all is lost and I have to accept that the industry is rigged and car hire companies collude with parking companies to profit from the honest motorist. I had hoped that the BVRLA would have advised their members to do the honorable thing to not accept liability on behalf of their customers, by passing on their details when asked, however, the BVRLA advice is quite the opposite - paying the fine and charging the customer is actually one of the recommendation of how their members should deal with parking fines!

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!
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Comments

  • Half_way
    Half_way Posts: 7,254 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    You need to find the Ts and C's
     How are Enterprise trying to charge you? is this being automatically deducted somewhere, or have they invoiced you?

    Its important that you do not call this a fine, or a penalty when dealing with them, likewise terms such as violation should not be used.
     If they have used these then its their own fault.

    So you need to state that this is a speculative invoice from an unregulated company , no violation has occurred, no fine was issued, and the un regulated company are not in any way an authority , or anything approaching an authority

    A google search has thrown up this for enterprise Ts and Cs, although it may not be the same as the one that applied to you


    (vii) pay any administrative fines, fees, charges, costs, penalties, or other fines that are
    imposed, issued or incurred in connection with the Renter's usage of the Vehicle
    during the Rental Period (including usage of the Vehicle by Authorised Drivers or
    other third parties who are permitted by Renter to use the Vehicle), such as fines
    or fees for illegal parking or speeding, non-compliance with bus lane, congestion
    charges, tolls or violations of the rules of the highway or traffic offence or
    contravention in any country, in all cases, to the extent permitted by law and not
    caused by Owner;
    (iv) an administration fee of up to £45 in the UK and up to €35 in Ireland for processing
    any fines or offences against the Vehicle, Owner, Renter, any Authorised Driver or
    any other person Renter permitted to use the Vehicle during the Rental Period, unless
    caused through Owner’s own fault



    There was no "illegal" parking , likewise there was no fine that needed processing
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
  • velvetyfrog
    velvetyfrog Posts: 30 Forumite
    Third Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    They said that the charge is pending and will be deducted from the credit card that they have from me. Presumably they are breaking consumer law if they can't substantiate a charge with evidence (of what it is for, since they don't appear to have received the original PCN) and a valid contract with me (that shows I agreed to them charging me).
  • fisherjim
    fisherjim Posts: 6,511 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    There can be no appeal to POPLA that boat never even came to port, it would appear that the hire company let this go past all that to debt collection and paid them, idiots!
    Now they are trying to cut their losses by passing on £95 to you taking £75 on their chin for their poor admin.
    As you were not the direct hirer I don't see how they are charging you?
  • Galloglass
    Galloglass Posts: 1,287 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Fourth Anniversary Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 12 June 2023 at 5:33PM
    Did they shove a Ipad in front of you and ask you to put a signature to an agreement. This is a term from a rental last month

    TRAFFIC VIOLATIONS, PARKING AND TOLLS: I acknowledge that for the Rental Period I am liable for all traffic violations; parking fees, fines and/or penalties; toll fees and/or penalties; and any associated administrative costs

    • All land is owned. If you are not on yours, you are on someone else's
    • When on someone else's be it a road, a pavement, a right of way or a property there are rules. Don't assume there are none.
    • "Free parking" doesn't mean free of rules. Check the rules and if you don't like them, go elsewhere
    • All land is owned. If you are not on yours, you are on someone else's and their rules apply.
    Just visiting - back in 2025
  • velvetyfrog
    velvetyfrog Posts: 30 Forumite
    Third Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 12 June 2023 at 5:42PM
    Well, I am still waiting to see that "contract" and the details of the "contravention" but they are in no rush to provide them, presumably because they have nothing. They did say they never received the original PCN, so why on earth would they not bring that up with ParkingEye and just paid the collection notice? Idiots indeed! In the meantime, no doubt they will charge my credit card as I cannot revoke my authorisation (looked it up, apparently even if you cancel your credit card, a car hire or hotel can still charge your account). 
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 39,898 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    ...I cannot revoke my authorisation (looked it up, apparently even if you cancel your credit card, a car hire or hotel can still charge your account). 
    But you can dispute the transaction with the credit card company.
  • velvetyfrog
    velvetyfrog Posts: 30 Forumite
    Third Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    Did they shove a Ipad in front of you and ask you to put a signature to an agreement. This is a term from a rental last month

    TRAFFIC VIOLATIONS, PARKING AND TOLLS: I acknowledge that for the Rental Period I am liable for all traffic violations; parking fees, fines and/or penalties; toll fees and/or penalties; and any associated administrative costs

    I can't remember - it was so long ago... I did find an earlier contract from Enterprise that got emailed to me (in 2022, another warranty repair courtesy car), however, this one definitely wasn't emailed. Only booking confirmations made on behalf of the manufacturer. Which makes me think I did not sign anything, other than swipe my card and show my driving license. I guess we will know when they email (or don't) a copy of the contract. Still, the wording is very misleading - surely being liable doesn't mean that I allow Enterprise to pay them for me (thus accepting they are issued correctly and not fraudulently) and then charge them on to me!?
  • B789
    B789 Posts: 3,441 Forumite
    Fifth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    You are able to dispute the transaction on your credit card and they will put a hold on that transaction until their own review which will include your reason for requesting the hold in the first place.

    You are allowed to dispute it, no matter what any "contract" you signed says. That is the whole point of contracts and you are disputing this one, the same way you dispute PCNs which are alleged breaches of contract.
  • fisherjim
    fisherjim Posts: 6,511 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Here are the BVRLA (who Enterprise belong to) guides to their members on traffic offences, private parking is covered from page 9, maybe a complaint to them:


  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 139,898 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 13 June 2023 at 11:06AM
    BVRLA offer ADR that costs the consumer nothing but you have to exhaust the complaint to Enterprise first. I would also dispute the payment with the credit card and get them to bounce it back as 'unauthorised' by you.

    The BVRLA have had a Memorandum of Understanding with the BPA for a decade to stop these issues:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5063387/bpa-and-bvrla-agreement-over-hire-cars-and-pcns


    From a BVRLA article in 2022:
    https://www.bvrla.co.uk/resource/ukpc-private-parking-company-changes-approach-to-enforcement.html

    "The best approach for members is to provide a valid hire agreement to formally transfer liability, which should help to ensure the private parking company doesn’t refer back to the rental or leasing company."

    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of this/any page where it says:
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