Cancellation of Direct Debit by NHS Business Services

Jumblebumble

BarefootinHastings said:

born_again said:

A DD will continue till either party cancels it.
But you do need to check that the funds are taken. A DD can be active & no funds taken. 

Noticing no amount taken on the required date would have allowed you to contact them straight away. 
So you really need to check your bank account to make sure ALL payments are correct. 👍

Surely a company can't just cancel a direct debit though. Otherwise what's the point in the direct debit?

Surely they have to notify you and not just a "one call but we missed you" attempt. 

Yes, noticing that the Direct debit was not being taken would have allowed me to contact them, but then I have no reason to assume it would be cancelled and that the direct debit would stop being taken. 

Who does that responsibility lay with? If I were to cancel the direct debit, I am supposed to notify the company. Why not the other way around? If I were to cancel the direct debit, call them but not get through, could I say "I tried but couldn't get through" and that be ok? 

Are you saying this is a lost cause?

I would ask them exactly why they have acted against their own Terms and Conditions
It would be absurd for anyone to suggest that you acted wrongfully or with a lack of care by not checking that the NHSBA did not cancel your DD when there was no reason whatsoever for them to do so.



if think you have an exceptional reason not to pay, and can show that you did not act wrongfully or with any lack of care

born_again

eskbanker said:

BarefootinHastings said:

born_again said:

A DD will continue till either party cancels it.
But you do need to check that the funds are taken. A DD can be active & no funds taken. 

Noticing no amount taken on the required date would have allowed you to contact them straight away. 
So you really need to check your bank account to make sure ALL payments are correct. 👍

Surely a company can't just cancel a direct debit though. Otherwise what's the point in the direct debit?

Surely they have to notify you and not just a "one call but we missed you" attempt. 

Yes, noticing that the Direct debit was not being taken would have allowed me to contact them, but then I have no reason to assume it would be cancelled and that the direct debit would stop being taken. 

Who does that responsibility lay with? If I were to cancel the direct debit, I am supposed to notify the company. Why not the other way around? If I were to cancel the direct debit, call them but not get through, could I say "I tried but couldn't get through" and that be ok? 

Are you saying this is a lost cause?

It's unclear to me exactly what you mean by 'cancelling the direct debit' in this thread - the DD process works by having a mandate set up at the bank, and then the authorised company taking payments against that.  Are you saying that the mandate itself has been cancelled (I thought it still showed at your bank) or simply that the company has stopped taking payments against it?

A call to bank would be able to confirm if it is cancelled & if it is who by 👍

BarefootinHastings

It's unclear to me exactly what you mean by 'cancelling the direct debit' in this thread - the DD process works by having a mandate set up at the bank, and then the authorised company taking payments against that.  Are you saying that the mandate itself has been cancelled (I thought it still showed at your bank) or simply that the company has stopped taking payments against it?

The bank account still shows the direct debit on the list of outgoings. However, when I spoke to NHS BSA about the direct debit, they said that they had cancelled the payment / direct debit from their end and thus stopped taking the money from my account. 

So the direct debit was showing on my outgoings, yet no money was being taken. Since, the direct debit was still showing in the outgoings list, I assumed that it would still be going out. I did not check each bank statement to see if this was true, because the direct debit was set up and thus I assumed that NHS BSA would continued to take the payment monthly as per their agreement and that (as had done previously and according to their T&C's) the PPC exemption would renew thus no break in the DD payment would be there. 

NHS BSA cancelled the direct debit / stopped taking the payments and I still have yet to have an explanation as to why... 

BarefootinHastings

born_again said:

eskbanker said:

BarefootinHastings said:

born_again said:

A DD will continue till either party cancels it.
But you do need to check that the funds are taken. A DD can be active & no funds taken. 

Noticing no amount taken on the required date would have allowed you to contact them straight away. 
So you really need to check your bank account to make sure ALL payments are correct. 👍

Surely a company can't just cancel a direct debit though. Otherwise what's the point in the direct debit?

Surely they have to notify you and not just a "one call but we missed you" attempt. 

Yes, noticing that the Direct debit was not being taken would have allowed me to contact them, but then I have no reason to assume it would be cancelled and that the direct debit would stop being taken. 

Who does that responsibility lay with? If I were to cancel the direct debit, I am supposed to notify the company. Why not the other way around? If I were to cancel the direct debit, call them but not get through, could I say "I tried but couldn't get through" and that be ok? 

Are you saying this is a lost cause?

It's unclear to me exactly what you mean by 'cancelling the direct debit' in this thread - the DD process works by having a mandate set up at the bank, and then the authorised company taking payments against that.  Are you saying that the mandate itself has been cancelled (I thought it still showed at your bank) or simply that the company has stopped taking payments against it?

A call to bank would be able to confirm if it is cancelled & if it is who by 👍

Yup, already done that and got an appointment with Nationwide (the "not bank" for the fickle) this Saturday to review. But they say I should have a case as they still show the direct debit on my account. 

BarefootinHastings

Jumblebumble said:

I would ask them exactly why they have acted against their own Terms and Conditions
It would be absurd for anyone to suggest that you acted wrongfully or with a lack of care by not checking that the NHSBA did not cancel your DD when there was no reason whatsoever for them to do so.



if think you have an exceptional reason not to pay, and can show that you did not act wrongfully or with any lack of care

This is what I have being trying in vain to get them (NHS BSA) to listen to and why I am pursuing a formal complaint. All NHS BSA keep saying is "it's your fault"

As I said to them, there is no reason for me to cancel the DD as I NEED the PPC exemption... 

Penalty payment #2 is now being enacted by them, so no idea how long this goes on for... 

As I said to them, I am more than happy to pay the direct debit back payments that I would have paid had they done what they should have done and automatically renewed the direct debit.... but they don't seem to listen to that either. 

eskbanker

BarefootinHastings said:

It's unclear to me exactly what you mean by 'cancelling the direct debit' in this thread - the DD process works by having a mandate set up at the bank, and then the authorised company taking payments against that.  Are you saying that the mandate itself has been cancelled (I thought it still showed at your bank) or simply that the company has stopped taking payments against it?

The bank account still shows the direct debit on the list of outgoings. However, when I spoke to NHS BSA about the direct debit, they said that they had cancelled the payment / direct debit from their end and thus stopped taking the money from my account. 

So the direct debit was showing on my outgoings, yet no money was being taken. Since, the direct debit was still showing in the outgoings list, I assumed that it would still be going out. I did not check each bank statement to see if this was true, because the direct debit was set up and thus I assumed that NHS BSA would continued to take the payment monthly as per their agreement and that (as had done previously and according to their T&C's) the PPC exemption would renew thus no break in the DD payment would be there. 

NHS BSA cancelled the direct debit / stopped taking the payments and I still have yet to have an explanation as to why... 

BarefootinHastings said:

Yup, already done that and got an appointment with Nationwide (the "not bank" for the fickle) this Saturday to review. But they say I should have a case as they still show the direct debit on my account. 

If it's simply a case of NHS BSA failing to take payments that they were authorised to take then there doesn't seem to be any value in discussing it with Nationwide, as it's not really 'cancelling the direct debit' as such?  In other words, if the DD mandate is still present on your current account, then any failure to take payments against it are solely a matter for NHS BSA....

born_again

BarefootinHastings said:

Yup, already done that and got an appointment with Nationwide (the "not bank" for the fickle) this Saturday to review. But they say I should have a case as they still show the direct debit on my account. 

Why not ring them, should be a simple enough question for them to answer. Nothing else nationwide can do, as merchant sets up DD with bank, they then take the money as & when required. 
TBH, staff on phone will most likely know more than the staff in branch, who are far more sales orientated. 

Still showing depends on their systems. Just because it is cancelled, does not mean it no longer will show.

BarefootinHastings

born_again said:

BarefootinHastings said:

Yup, already done that and got an appointment with Nationwide (the "not bank" for the fickle) this Saturday to review. But they say I should have a case as they still show the direct debit on my account. 

Why not ring them, should be a simple enough question for them to answer. Nothing else nationwide can do, as merchant sets up DD with bank, they then take the money as & when required. 
TBH, staff on phone will most likely know more than the staff in branch, who are far more sales orientated. 

Still showing depends on their systems. Just because it is cancelled, does not mean it no longer will show.

They said they can find out when it was cancelled and potentially why. No harm in going down other than my time. I have rung them and this is what they suggested. 

Or... "the merchant sets up the DD with bank, they then take the money as & when required" ..... Or...

"merchant sets up the DD, cancels the DD and stops taking the money as and when required"   

BarefootinHastings

eskbanker said:

If it's simply a case of NHS BSA failing to take payments that they were authorised to take then there doesn't seem to be any value in discussing it with Nationwide, as it's not really 'cancelling the direct debit' as such?  In other words, if the DD mandate is still present on your current account, then any failure to take payments against it are solely a matter for NHS BSA....

It is simply a case that NHS BSA have said that they cancelled the direct debit from their side, that is what the person said on the phone from NHS BSA when I contacted them to ask what has happened. 

So NHS BSA cancelled the direct debit, stopped taking the money, even though they were fully authorised to do so and I was only too happy for them to do so, as that was the whole point of setting up the direct debit.

NHS BSA don't seem to really care whether or not they cancelled it / stopped taking money for whatever reason they had, because they didn't seem to have one when I asked. All they repeat like a mantra is "it's your fault, you should have noticed", or "not our job to chase you". 

On the NHS PPC exemption T&C's... it states:

"We will normally automatically renew your PPC when your certificate expires. If you do not want your PPC to renew you should cancel your Direct Debit at your bank after making all of your payments. You must also tell us by calling on 0300 330 1341. If you do not tell us your PPC may be renewed even if you do not want it."

I didn't call them to cancel the direct debit. It should have automatically renewed as it had done previously, numerous times.... The last sentence makes it sound like they renew by default and ask questions later if the customer doesn't want to continue. Not that they will cancel it and wait for penalty charges to accrue... 

Also in the T&C's

"PPC cancellations

Your PPC cannot be cancelled. You may be able to get a refund if you become entitled to free NHS prescriptions. If you pay for your PPC by Direct Debit and you wish to cancel your payments, contact us. If you cancel your Direct Debit, you may have an outstanding balance to pay. We'll contact you if you have any money outstanding. If you claim free NHS prescriptions without a valid exemption, you may be issued with a penalty charge notice."

So I couldn't cancel the PPC. I did not contact them to cancel it. I did not cancel the direct debit. So surely this is on them. 

As I say, I am happy to pay the direct debit back charge that I would have paid if they had renewed. 

eskbanker

^ The point of my post was just to highlight that there doesn't seem to be any mileage in discussing the matter with Nationwide, so, yes, you need to resolve with NHS BSA.  It still unclear to me whether the DD mandate was actually cancelled or not, but ultimately it doesn't really make a huge amount of difference, in that NHS BSA were the ones who were in control of how and when to collect the money - I get why you feel that you had no responsibility to validate that the payments were being made, but that case becomes weaker if this has been going on for over three years and they claim to have made multiple attempts to contact you, so difficult to know how this would be viewed by a neutral body such as a court....