Cancellation of Direct Debit by NHS Business Services

BarefootinHastings

Hello,

I am writing to you regarding an ongoing and recent issue that has happened with my NHS pre-payment certificate that doesn’t quite seem right to me, and I am not getting very far with the NHS Business services who are, at times, being rude and obstructive. For several years I have had a prepayment certificate to cover the costs of my medications as I have a chronic medical condition and it would be rather expensive to get prescriptions without one. I have been paying for this via Direct debit without issue for years, so I was surprised when I received a penalty notice from the NHS Business services saying I was not eligible for PPC exemption.

I immediately checked my bank and the NHS PPC direct debit was still active, sitting on my account, however on further investigation it turned out that the direct debit had been cancelled.

I attempted to contact the NHS Business services to find out what was going on, and it is not very easy to get hold of them! Many hours on the telephone and waiting around to try to talk to someone and eventually I get through. However, I tried to explain that for some reason the direct debit had been cancelled and I certainly had not cancelled it. The penalty service claimed to know nothing about the direct debit and were only concerned that I was due a penalty charge and that it was my responsibility to ensure the direct debit was being paid out.

I looked at the Terms and Conditions for the PPC exemption and it states:

"We will normally automatically renew your PPC when your certificate expires. If you do not want your PPC to renew you should cancel your Direct Debit at your bank after making all of your payments. You must also tell us by calling on 0300 330 1341. If you do not tell us your PPC may be renewed even if you do not want it."   

I certainly had not instructed my bank to cancel the direct debit and nor had I contacted NHS Business services to do so. So I enquired why the direct debit had been cancelled and the Penalty service again stated, “that’s not their responsibility” – eventually referring me to another NHS PPC service. So again, I waited in lengthy queues to talk to someone about my account. Eventually getting through I was told that yes, on the system the direct debit had been cancelled but that the direct debit had been cancelled from the NHS side, not mine nor the banks. When I asked why, they could not give me and answer and were unsure. I have no logical reason for cancelling or ending the PPC exemption myself because my medical condition has not changed over the years and I still require all the prescriptions as I always have.

I asked why I was not informed and they said they had sent me a letter and tried to contact me. I said I had not received any letter, possibly due to this being the start of Covid lockdown and the chaos around that time, and I had not received a phone call. They mentioned that they tried to call but no one answered, to which I explained that if they had called my mobile during the day and I was at work then I would have been unable to answer the call and being an unknown number I would not have called it back. Again, they mentioned it is not their job to chase people for direct debit payments. Which doesn’t sound right when it is them that are cancelling the direct debit. As I said to them as well, if I were to call one of their services up and not get through and say “well I tried” – would that negate any costs that they deem necessary? Because I tried...

The response again was “well, we tried to contact you” again pretty much, it’s my fault. My mentioning of their terms and conditions stating that they normally automatically renew the PPC exemption and that the wording of the Terms of Conditions makes it sound as if renewing is the default unless they are told otherwise. As it states, the PPC may renew even if you do not want it to.

 

I also contacted the Direct Debit Guarantee people to find out what the rules were around Direct Debits and was told:

 "As no monies have been collected this won't be covered under the direct debit guarantee, the company may have cancelled the DD on their end only which means they won't collect any more payments from yourself. It may show as active in your bank, If you still receiving the service the company can request the owed payment from yourself ".  

As I mentioned to the NHS Business Services, I would be more than happy to go back and pay the PPC charges that I would have paid had they continued and renewed the exemption certificate as their Terms and Conditions state. That is what the Direct Debit Guarantee states, unless I am reading it wrong.

But now I am being hounded by them for penalty charges at over £100 each time due to them cancelling the direct debit. They do not want to listen to any reason or anything other than their own view. This sounds unreasonable for actions taken by them not me. The only thing they say is the charges are waived if I can prove that I had a valid PPC exemption, but they know that I don’t because they cancelled the direct debit... So that sounds a bit like a trap.

So I am now left in limbo waiting for yet further penalty notices and the NHS Business services do not seem to want to admit or even acknowledge that they did anything wrong. I have written them a formal complaint but still awaiting acknowledgement of this, and I contacted the Parliamentary and Health Ombudsman to see if that gets anywhere, but this feels all wrong to me. You can also complain via their online form, though this does not send an email to you, and so you would have no record of any communications made via the form. So it would be easy for them to say "you did nothing". Again, that seems a bit wrong. 

It seems as if they are taking advantage of a situation that they caused and that I now have no come back other than paying whatever charges they deem fit for however long they deem.

I have reinstated the direct debit and ensured that they now have an active PPC exemption on my account, but as I said to them, why should I have any confidence in their services as they could just cut off the direct debit at any point without warning and without taking any responsibility.

I wonder if anyone has any advice on the above, as something sounds off here. 

Many thanks,

(Removed by Forum Team)

Jonboy_1984

They do seem to have form for this and an illogical rule book:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/jun/23/nhs-sent-my-wife-a-penalty-notice-for-getting-a-prescription

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/mar/16/cancer-could-kill-me-but-i-face-an-nhs-fine-over-prescriptions


https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/how-appeal-nhs-fine-17-15759789

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/22/nhs-has-fined-me-for-claiming-free-prescriptions-because-of-its-own-mistake

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/tiverton-mum-fined-nhs-claiming-8206892

BarefootinHastings

Wow. So has anyone actually ever got the NHS Business Services to admit THEY made a mistake and get the penalties overturned?

The last charge I was told I can't pay for 28 days whilst it's under the "investigation" stage, then 28 days later when I can pay, it's £100 + £28.05 prescription charge. 

This all sounds totally unfair and wrong. Almost a scam.... You set the direct debit up in good faith, they cancel it from their end and make vague attempts to contact you, then you get hammered with penalties... 

Surely they cannot make mistakes and do what they like?

I have contacted the Parliamentary & Health Ombudsman to start the formal complaint process, but the NHS PECS Business Services seem to be just ignoring any emails. 

If you go to fill in the online form, then you get no record of anything you say so again it's all one sided on THEIR side... 

This could cost me thousands and it all feels one sided. 

Does anyone have any advice how to get them to see sense and be reasonable? 

born_again

graeme27uk said:

Wow. So has anyone actually ever got the NHS Business Services to admit THEY made a mistake and get the penalties overturned?

The last charge I was told I can't pay for 28 days whilst it's under the "investigation" stage, then 28 days later when I can pay, it's £100 + £28.05 prescription charge. 

This all sounds totally unfair and wrong. Almost a scam.... You set the direct debit up in good faith, they cancel it from their end and make vague attempts to contact you, then you get hammered with penalties... 

Surely they cannot make mistakes and do what they like?

I have contacted the Parliamentary & Health Ombudsman to start the formal complaint process, but the NHS PECS Business Services seem to be just ignoring any emails. 

If you go to fill in the online form, then you get no record of anything you say so again it's all one sided on THEIR side... 

This could cost me thousands and it all feels one sided. 

Does anyone have any advice how to get them to see sense and be reasonable? 

In reality you are looking at your MP getting involved & seeing if they can get more information out of them.

Although maybe a SAR could deliver some info on just what details they were using to contact you.

BarefootinHastings

Ok, so just sent a letter to my MP as well...

Dear Mrs Hart,

I was wondering if you would be able to help. For a number of years I have had an NHS PPC exemption due to chronic medical conditions. I have been using this due to the number of prescriptions that I have to have on a regular basis. In order to pay for these I set up a direct debit with the NHS and my bank (Nationwide) and this has been paying out as far as I was aware as normal. The direct debit was still active and open on my bank account. The terms and conditions of the PPC exemption state that the renewal of this is automatic, indeed that the renewal is a default position and that it is up to the client/customer to cancel or change the direct debit. I have not done anything like this as I am still requiring the medication.

However, a month or so ago, I received a penalty notice and was rather shocked! I immediately checked my bank and sure enough the direct debit was still open, however, after contacting NHS PPC services, it turned out that they had cancelled the direct debit themselves from their end! For some reason they had not renewed this as they had done in the past. 

I explained that no one had contacted me so how was I supposed to know. They replied that they had sent a letter and made a phone call to my mobile and that it is not their job to chase customers. I responded that I had not received any letter (possibly due to this being the beginnings of the Covid lockdown) and that if they had attempted to call my mobile during work hours, being a teacher, I would be unable to answer and there was no voice mail message left. Again, they reiterated that it is not their job to chase and that they had made attempts to contact me. They seemed disinterested in listening to reason.

I have already had to pay one penalty notice, but now I am being sent further ones and at £100+prescription costs, this could total a lot of money for something that is not my doing. 

I have said to them that I am more than happy to pay the cost that I would have had to pay for the PPC exemption that lapsed due to them cancelling the direct debit but they do not want to seem to listen to that option and are just interested in extracting as much money as they can. 

I have spent a significant amount of time, hours, on the phone trying to get through to talk to someone, but when I eventually do they are rude, obstructive and dismissive. I have spoken to the Parliamentary and Health Ombudsman who have said to lodge a formal complaint, which I have done, but the time for them to acknowledge this has lapsed (as per their Complaints policy) and they (NHS Business services) just seem to be ignoring anything I send or say. 

I have also spoken to the Direct debit company regarding the Direct Debit Guarantee and they say that if I use a service but that I have not paid for, then the company can ask for the monies, which is exactly what I proposed to NHS Business services. 

So the actions / inactions of NHS Business services is now potentially going to cost me hundreds of pounds for something that I in good faith set up with them and hoped that they would honour, including their own terms and conditions. 

Unfortunately this seems unlikely and I am the victim in this. I feel powerless to fight an organisation that does not want to respond nor listen to reason. 

I have now reinstated my PPC exemption but I am anxious that yet again, they will not honour their terms and conditions and renew this and there is the potential that they will mishandle my account again, with no acknowledgement of their error and no recourse of action. 

Many thanks

(Removed by Forum Team)

born_again

I would advise not to put you name or other personal details in your posts posts. 
You should have a cog in the green line at the op of your posts, which has a edit option in.

BarefootinHastings

born_again said:

I would advise not to put you name or other personal details in your posts posts. 
You should have a cog in the green line at the op of your posts, which has a edit option in.

I pressed post comment and then noticed it also copied the name... 

No green cog. Been trying to work out how to edit the post. So I have reported it... hopefully Admin can remove it... 

diinozzo

The Nationwide is not a Bank.

MalMonroe

diinozzo said:

The Nationwide is not a Bank.

That comment is not helpful in any way.

badmemory

My advice would be in future to pay it annually & not by DD even then.  If you time it right you can get 14 lots of 28 days in instead of only 13.  Then not renew for 27 days.

I suspect that what they have done is instead of not taking month 11 & 12 they have actually cancelled it.

born_again

diinozzo said:

The Nationwide is not a Bank.

Yet they have a banking licence.