CCJ threatened over Gatwick drop off Parking Charge Notice

pinkie1969

Our case is very similar to https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6426624/gatwick-drop-off-pcn-without-stopping-and-no-letters-received-from-ncp
My nephew took a wrong turn into the Gatwick Drop Off Zone, it took him 2 minutes to find his way out again, he didn’t stop.
He then found his way to the long stay car park where he paid for the correct parking required. 

Similarly to the above case he didn’t receive any letters to his correct address. The first letter he received was from the County Court Business Centre threatening a CCJ if he didn’t pay £259.20. This was followed by a letter from BW Legal, NCP’s debt collectors.

For a young anxiety sufferer, trying to get his credit rating up, this was terrifying. 

After investigation the original PCN was only discovered 5 months later at his previous address a university student house. He had notified the DVLA the same month he moved house but clearly something was amiss. 

We contacted the CCBC contesting the ticket who offered mediation which we had by telephone yesterday. Obviously, that was a waste of time as it would be in any parking fine situation. They conceded only to bring the fine down to £200! The mediator actuallysaid they never budge, it’s just a formality for them and that they simply don’t care. 
The mediator says we now have until 16.00 on 12th June to decide whether we pay or go ahead with court proceedings. 

They advised a judge would very likely make a decision based on paperwork himself and my nephew wouldn’t have to attend in person. 

Due to my nephew’s mental health, he really can’t go to
court! I was able to deal with mediation on his behalf. 

Having read the case above I’m wondering if it’s too late to attempt to
get Gatwick Airport to get the charge cancelled. I’m trying to figure this out as I write this. 
Any last minute advice gratefully received!

pinkie1969

The original PCN was for £100 or £15 if you pay within 14 days. We offered this to make it go away but it was refused by BW Legal.

The_Slithy_Tove

Lots wrong with the PoC, quite apart from the egregious and unjustifiable amounts claimed - funny how £104.20 on the left becomes £174.20 on the right with no explanation. Talks about Ts&Cs of "parking", though it appears there was no parking. Also talks about driver and/or keeper. Which is it? They can't claim against the keeper for a number of reasons, only the driver. I hope that during the mediation bit, there wasn't any admission as to who the driver was (sadly I suspect there was).

pinkie1969

It states, at the very bottom, £70 debt recovery costs! There was no admission as to who was driving.
I’ve written to Gatwick Airport directly now and hope they’ll come through at the 11th hour!

Coupon-mad

He wasn't parked.

There can be no parking charge for a car taking a wrong turn.  DVLA data for a private PCN cannot be legally obtained for just "being in a zone" for 2 minutes and not parking.

DVLA data for private parking charges is not possible to obtain for what is effectively a moving traffic event.

The PoFA 2012 sets out that there must first of all be a breach of a 'relevant contract or relevant obligation' and there must be adequate signs warning of the £100.  In this case, that means huge signs with £100 in large lettering, that even a lost driver who doesn't park can see in moving traffic.

There was no relevant obligation to pay £5 (that is a drop off charge.  No dropping off took place) so no £5 was agreed or due, let alone an unknown £100 penalty as 'punishment' for taking a wrong lane.  And there was certainly no knowledge of (or any way to learn about) a contract to pay £100 because none of the approach lane overhead signs tell you this.

NCP are required to have proper, very prominent signs warning of the £100 (not just the £5 drop off fee) on approach.  

They don't.

NCP should have an exempting camera to identify cars that have merely got lost and driven right through in 1 or 2 minutes.

They don't.

The ParkingEye v Beavis case confirms that a parking charge is for a 'period of parking' (POFA 2012 Schedule 4 definition) only and cannot be merely to "punish". There must be a legitimate interest that overrides all else.  There's no legitimate interest in catching all cars that happen to take a wrong lane for two minutes.

NCP are at fault here due to lack of £100 signs that can be seen from a driver's seat in moving traffic at a hectic airport, AND for not bothering to have any method to exempt cars that do not stop.

You realise he has to do a WS bundle now, and you have read the 2nd post of the NEWBIES thread to suss out what happens when?

He wasn't meant to agree to Mediation.  This was, unfortunately, completely against our advice.  Complete waste of time.

He doesn't have a deadline to 'decide'!  Let it proceed!  Don't be scared.  This sort of life experience is vital and empowering.  He'll learn loads!

He should NOT agree to a decision on the papers.

Sadly this has been done all wrong so far but we can help rescue it with a decent Witness Statement.  Please read the second post of the NEWBIES thread.

Please show us what his defence said, verbatim.

And please tell us exactly how many seconds the PCN says the car was in the zone. EDIT: I've just seen above, just over 125 seconds.

pinkie1969

I realise you know your way around this forum like the back of your hand but it’s not easy to find this “Newbies” post. The “advice” from the court was that the only option we had to avoid an automatic CCJ was to agree to mediation or go to court. My nephew cannot afford a CCJ so…. I was on this forum from 6.30 until midday today and it is not easy at all to find the relevant help. I appreciate your help but I must now decipher what you mean by a Witness Statement bundle!
We’ve been told by the mediator if we don’t respond by the deadline it’s an automatic CCJ!

pinkie1969

We just have the simple defence in mediation (by telephone) of “he took a wrong turn and drove out again not stopping” Obviously for court we will have more detail, lack of signage etc!
Any links to appropriate advice on Newbies thread appreciated.
We have no witness statement as yet as we only had mediation yesterday. We felt we had no choice but to agree to mediation to avoid the CCJ!

Coupon-mad

pinkie1969 said:

I realise you know your way around this forum like the back of your hand but it’s not easy to find this “Newbies” post. 

We know, we sympathise that forums are new to most posters, which is why my signature under every reply I post, tells new posters how to hop there in 2 clicks.

Look below at the coloured writing in my 'signature'
vvvvvvv

P.S. the Mediator lied. There's no auto CCJ.

We felt we had no choice but to agree to mediation to avoid the CCJ!

That was incorrect.  There is no risk as long as he does it right from now on.

Coupon-mad

pinkie1969 said:

We just have the simple defence in mediation (by telephone) of “he took a wrong turn and drove out again not stopping” 

Exact defence words please, so we know what he can put in his Witness Statement.  I'm sure he can't have just written less than ten words in the box?

I am not talking about the phone Mediation.

I'm asking for the words he put in the defence box (either online using MCOL, or by filling out a reply form and posting it) when he got that claim form.

By the way there's also a blue hyperlink back to page one of the forum right under the reply box.  Click on it

You have a choice of two links back to the parking board page one, on every page. One at the top (tiny writing which looks like my signature) and one under the reply box.

pinkie1969

I see that, thank you! At first it looks like a little ad. So the County Court Business Centre lie about CCJ’s being issued at court?

pinkie1969

Coupon-mad said:

pinkie1969 said:

We just have the simple defence in mediation (by telephone) of “he took a wrong turn and drove out again not stopping” 

Exact defence words please, so we know what he can put in his Witness Statement.  I'm sure he can't have just written less than ten words in the box?

I am not talking about the phone Mediation.

I'm asking for the words he put in the defence box (either online using MCOL, or by filling out a reply form and posting it) when he got that claim form.

By the way there's also a blue hyperlink back to page one of the forum right under the reply box.  Click on it

You have a choice of two links back to the parking board page one, on every page. One at the too and one under the reply box.

We have not written any witness statement or written in any box as yet. We haven’t gone to or decided to proceed to court yet. 

We will certainly prepare something thoroughly in due course. 

We have had no option to appeal whatsoever due to PCN not being received in time. 

I don’t think either of us could remember what exact words were used on the reply form: and I’m certain they wouldn’t meet with the forum’s approval.
At that time we didn’t know what we now do!