How safe are Li batteries in EV/Hybrids

born_again

MouldyOldDough said:

But how fast /how major an accident do you need to damage a Lithium battery? 
I see cars that have had minor shunts with complete new front ends 
Cars are built to crumple and absorb impact to protect the occupants but not necessarily the battery 

You do understand just where the battery is & how strong they are.

If they were so weak, tesla would never get type approval.

ComicGeek

Herzlos said:

MouldyOldDough said:

born_again said:

ComicGeek said:

But do Tesla replace batteries after a minor car accident at a price that the insurers will accept, or do they just write the car off? All the articles that I've seen suggest that the insurers don't bother.

That's very different to a Tesla owner having an issue under warranty. 

Why would they replace battery after a minor accident? 

That is the same as asking if any other car manufacture will replace the chassis after a minor accident.

To damage a car to the point where the battery section is so badly damaged, that replacement is required, would not be a minor accident.

But how fast /how major an accident do you need to damage a Lithium battery? 
I see cars that have had minor shunts with complete new front ends 
Cars are built to crumple and absorb impact to protect the occupants but not necessarily the battery 

Crumple zones are designed to, well, crumple, on pretty minor impacts. The idea is that it takes the inertia out of the crash and protects the central shell where the occupants (and batteries) are.

Unless the batteries are stored in the crumple zone (they are usually in the floor of the central shell), then you've got nothing to worry about. You'd need to have a crash bad enough to breach the shell or damage the chassis to even risk impacting the cells, and such a crash would almost certainly write a car off independent of the fuel source.

EV's may actually be cheaper to repair in a lot of cases, because there's not much to replace in the front crumple zone compared to a liquid fuel car.

The issue noted by the insurers is that they have to guarantee that the EV and batteries are safe after repair to hand back to the owner. Just because the chassis isn't visibly damaged doesn't mean that there hasn't been damage to the batteries. 

Therefore it's safer for the insurers to write off the EV. That will hopefully change when there are better ways of inspecting batteries, or replacing them in a cost effective way, but ultimately insurers are covering themselves.

Even a small shunt will still affect occupants and batteries, the car doesn't absorb all of the energy.

MouldyOldDough

ComicGeek said:

Herzlos said:

MouldyOldDough said:

born_again said:

ComicGeek said:

But do Tesla replace batteries after a minor car accident at a price that the insurers will accept, or do they just write the car off? All the articles that I've seen suggest that the insurers don't bother.

That's very different to a Tesla owner having an issue under warranty. 

Why would they replace battery after a minor accident? 

That is the same as asking if any other car manufacture will replace the chassis after a minor accident.

To damage a car to the point where the battery section is so badly damaged, that replacement is required, would not be a minor accident.

But how fast /how major an accident do you need to damage a Lithium battery? 
I see cars that have had minor shunts with complete new front ends 
Cars are built to crumple and absorb impact to protect the occupants but not necessarily the battery 

Crumple zones are designed to, well, crumple, on pretty minor impacts. The idea is that it takes the inertia out of the crash and protects the central shell where the occupants (and batteries) are.

Unless the batteries are stored in the crumple zone (they are usually in the floor of the central shell), then you've got nothing to worry about. You'd need to have a crash bad enough to breach the shell or damage the chassis to even risk impacting the cells, and such a crash would almost certainly write a car off independent of the fuel source.

EV's may actually be cheaper to repair in a lot of cases, because there's not much to replace in the front crumple zone compared to a liquid fuel car.

The issue noted by the insurers is that they have to guarantee that the EV and batteries are safe after repair to hand back to the owner. Just because the chassis isn't visibly damaged doesn't mean that there hasn't been damage to the batteries. 

Therefore it's safer for the insurers to write off the EV. That will hopefully change when there are better ways of inspecting batteries, or replacing them in a cost effective way, but ultimately insurers are covering themselves.

Even a small shunt will still affect occupants and batteries, the car doesn't absorb all of the energy.

I am talking about collision damage causing dangerous conditions for the EV battery rather than costs 
Lithium can (and does) explode with some power 

WellKnownSid

I don’t believe they use lithium metal in EVs. Only in those AA batteries for digital cameras etc.

photome

WellKnownSid said:

I don’t believe they use lithium metal in EVs. Only in those AA batteries for digital cameras etc.

why dont you believe that ?

Car_54

WellKnownSid said:

I don’t believe they use lithium metal in EVs. Only in those AA batteries for digital cameras etc.

Lithium metal is not used in any batteries. They use various lithium oxides, phosphates, etc.

WellKnownSid

photome said:

WellKnownSid said:

I don’t believe they use lithium metal in EVs. Only in those AA batteries for digital cameras etc.

why dont you believe that ?

The use of lithium metal is being talked about for solid-state EV batteries but they're not in use yet.

MouldyOldDough

Car_54 said:

WellKnownSid said:

I don’t believe they use lithium metal in EVs. Only in those AA batteries for digital cameras etc.

Lithium metal is not used in any batteries. They use various lithium oxides, phosphates, etc.

And what do you think that lithium oxide /phosphate is made from? 

WellKnownSid

MouldyOldDough said:

Car_54 said:

Lithium metal is not used in any batteries. They use various lithium oxides, phosphates, etc.

And what do you think that lithium oxide /phosphate is made from? 

Sodium is a highly reactive metal too, but taking your analogy I poured a load of sodium onto my chips last night and yet they never exploded...

uknick

MouldyOldDough said:

Car_54 said:

WellKnownSid said:

I don’t believe they use lithium metal in EVs. Only in those AA batteries for digital cameras etc.

Lithium metal is not used in any batteries. They use various lithium oxides, phosphates, etc.

And what do you think that lithium oxide /phosphate is made from? 

Water is made from Hydrogen.  I'm not aware of water exploding when a naked flame is applied to it.