How safe are Li batteries in EV/Hybrids

ComicGeek

born_again said:

ComicGeek said:

facade said:

The acid test is what the insurers think, and whether EVs are cheaper or more expensive than the equivalent conventionally fuelled car to reflect the risk.

There are a lot more variables than fire risk that insurers consider. Minor damage to batteries that can't be repaired seems to be a bigger issue than fire risk. 

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-11891229/Rising-number-electric-cars-minor-battery-damage-written-off.html  

Probably best to avoid any EVs that use batteries as part of the chassis, like Tesla. Future EVs will have replaceable batteries in the same way that engines can be replaced in a petrol car - not cheap or easy, but cheap enough and easy enough to avoid scrapping cars unnecessarily.

Tesla replace batteries without any issues.
As do all other manufactures. 
Easier to replace a battery, than a ICE engine.

But do Tesla replace batteries after a minor car accident at a price that the insurers will accept, or do they just write the car off? All the articles that I've seen suggest that the insurers don't bother.

That's very different to a Tesla owner having an issue under warranty. 

Petriix

Herzlos said:

Petriix said:

MouldyOldDough said:

TadleyBaggie said:

Bit of a small sample to come to that conclusion. 

Its 100% of those who responded !

Your calculations are flawed. 

He doesn't like EV's; he's only reading the parts that say they are bad.

He claimed that it was "100% of those who responded" which is clearly wrong.

Herzlos

Petriix said:

Herzlos said:

Petriix said:

MouldyOldDough said:

TadleyBaggie said:

Bit of a small sample to come to that conclusion. 

Its 100% of those who responded !

Your calculations are flawed. 

He doesn't like EV's; he's only reading the parts that say they are bad.

He claimed that it was "100% of those who responded" which is clearly wrong.

Yeah, but he means "100% of the bits I cherry picked from those who responded".

Herzlos

ComicGeek said:

born_again said:

ComicGeek said:

facade said:

The acid test is what the insurers think, and whether EVs are cheaper or more expensive than the equivalent conventionally fuelled car to reflect the risk.

There are a lot more variables than fire risk that insurers consider. Minor damage to batteries that can't be repaired seems to be a bigger issue than fire risk. 

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-11891229/Rising-number-electric-cars-minor-battery-damage-written-off.html  

Probably best to avoid any EVs that use batteries as part of the chassis, like Tesla. Future EVs will have replaceable batteries in the same way that engines can be replaced in a petrol car - not cheap or easy, but cheap enough and easy enough to avoid scrapping cars unnecessarily.

Tesla replace batteries without any issues.
As do all other manufactures. 
Easier to replace a battery, than a ICE engine.

But do Tesla replace batteries after a minor car accident at a price that the insurers will accept, or do they just write the car off? All the articles that I've seen suggest that the insurers don't bother.

That's very different to a Tesla owner having an issue under warranty. 

I can't see why they wouldn't replace any parts after an accident, but there's no getting round that batteries are expensive.
I'd assume pretty much any car that'd been on fire would be an insurance write-off anyway, and a minor accident shouldn't be any worse for a battery car than a petrol car.

christianick

The Li battaries are generally considered safe when properly designed, manufactured, and used. They have undergone extensive testing and development to ensure their safety. However, like any energy storage system, there are potential risks associated with Li-ion batteries, especially in the event of a collision or exposure to certain environmental conditions. Let your OH talk to a dealerships and find everything that concerns him out.

Car_54

christianick said:

The Li battaries are generally considered safe when properly designed, manufactured, and used. They have undergone extensive testing and development to ensure their safety. However, like any energy storage system, there are potential risks associated with Li-ion batteries, especially in the event of a collision or exposure to certain environmental conditions. Let your OH talk to a dealerships and find everything that concerns him out.

Yes indeed. A dealership will certainly give an informed and well-balanced view. 

No chance of any possible bias or self-interest there.

ComicGeek

Herzlos said:

ComicGeek said:

born_again said:

ComicGeek said:

facade said:

The acid test is what the insurers think, and whether EVs are cheaper or more expensive than the equivalent conventionally fuelled car to reflect the risk.

There are a lot more variables than fire risk that insurers consider. Minor damage to batteries that can't be repaired seems to be a bigger issue than fire risk. 

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-11891229/Rising-number-electric-cars-minor-battery-damage-written-off.html  

Probably best to avoid any EVs that use batteries as part of the chassis, like Tesla. Future EVs will have replaceable batteries in the same way that engines can be replaced in a petrol car - not cheap or easy, but cheap enough and easy enough to avoid scrapping cars unnecessarily.

Tesla replace batteries without any issues.
As do all other manufactures. 
Easier to replace a battery, than a ICE engine.

But do Tesla replace batteries after a minor car accident at a price that the insurers will accept, or do they just write the car off? All the articles that I've seen suggest that the insurers don't bother.

That's very different to a Tesla owner having an issue under warranty. 

I can't see why they wouldn't replace any parts after an accident, but there's no getting round that batteries are expensive.
I'd assume pretty much any car that'd been on fire would be an insurance write-off anyway, and a minor accident shouldn't be any worse for a battery car than a petrol car.

Just had an article from AutoBlog pop up on my news feed, part below:

To make matters even more complicated, Tesla's new "structural" battery packs — those that are integrated with the car's body — have "zero repairability," according to manufacturing expert Sandy Munro. 

"A Tesla structural battery pack is going straight to the grinder," Munro, who's known for his vehicle teardowns, told Reuters earlier this year. 

A study by two major salvage companies found that of the over 120 Model Ys declared totaled, "a vast majority" had less than 10,000-lifetime miles, Reuters reported at the time. 

Tesla is acutely aware of the high insurance costs of its vehicles, with CEO Elon Musk in January saying they were "unreasonably high." He also noted that the company had implemented design changes, specifically in the bumper, to make some repairs easier and was working to ensure spare parts availability. 

born_again

ComicGeek said:

But do Tesla replace batteries after a minor car accident at a price that the insurers will accept, or do they just write the car off? All the articles that I've seen suggest that the insurers don't bother.

That's very different to a Tesla owner having an issue under warranty. 

Why would they replace battery after a minor accident? 

That is the same as asking if any other car manufacture will replace the chassis after a minor accident.

To damage a car to the point where the battery section is so badly damaged, that replacement is required, would not be a minor accident.

MouldyOldDough

born_again said:

ComicGeek said:

But do Tesla replace batteries after a minor car accident at a price that the insurers will accept, or do they just write the car off? All the articles that I've seen suggest that the insurers don't bother.

That's very different to a Tesla owner having an issue under warranty. 

Why would they replace battery after a minor accident? 

That is the same as asking if any other car manufacture will replace the chassis after a minor accident.

To damage a car to the point where the battery section is so badly damaged, that replacement is required, would not be a minor accident.

But how fast /how major an accident do you need to damage a Lithium battery? 
I see cars that have had minor shunts with complete new front ends 
Cars are built to crumple and absorb impact to protect the occupants but not necessarily the battery 

Herzlos

MouldyOldDough said:

born_again said:

ComicGeek said:

But do Tesla replace batteries after a minor car accident at a price that the insurers will accept, or do they just write the car off? All the articles that I've seen suggest that the insurers don't bother.

That's very different to a Tesla owner having an issue under warranty. 

Why would they replace battery after a minor accident? 

That is the same as asking if any other car manufacture will replace the chassis after a minor accident.

To damage a car to the point where the battery section is so badly damaged, that replacement is required, would not be a minor accident.

But how fast /how major an accident do you need to damage a Lithium battery? 
I see cars that have had minor shunts with complete new front ends 
Cars are built to crumple and absorb impact to protect the occupants but not necessarily the battery 

Crumple zones are designed to, well, crumple, on pretty minor impacts. The idea is that it takes the inertia out of the crash and protects the central shell where the occupants (and batteries) are.

Unless the batteries are stored in the crumple zone (they are usually in the floor of the central shell), then you've got nothing to worry about. You'd need to have a crash bad enough to breach the shell or damage the chassis to even risk impacting the cells, and such a crash would almost certainly write a car off independent of the fuel source.

EV's may actually be cheaper to repair in a lot of cases, because there's not much to replace in the front crumple zone compared to a liquid fuel car.