How safe are Li batteries in EV/Hybrids

Car_54

WellKnownSid said:

https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/are-electric-car-fires-really-that-common/

In fact, it’s an urban myth – research into actual cases has shown that EVs are much less likely to combust than their petrol or diesel equivalents. That’s not to say that all those pictures on social media never happened; you just don’t see an equivalent number of photos of petrol cars burning to the ground…

That vague unattributed "research into actual cases" might ring alarm bells.

However, the linked article seems very thorough and well-balanced. It's worth reading the whole thing.

SiliconChip

Have you considered trading in your OH for a less paranoid version?

facade

There just isn't enough publicly available data.

The data quoted on web pages is skewed and not representative of the whole.

The 54 vs 1898 thing implies that 35x as many conventionally fuelled cars set on fire as EVs (1898/54). In 2019 there were 31.8 million conventionally fuelled cars*, and only 105,000 pure EVs, or 269,000 hybrids + EVs. So by comparison, there were either 302x as many conventional cars as pure EVs, or 118x as many if we include hybrids. The (flawed) conclusion is that EVs are either 3x or 9x more likely to set on fire as conventional.  But it is Khan's London, and probably has a higher ratio of EVs to conventional because of the ULEZ

The acid test is what the insurers think, and whether EVs are cheaper or more expensive than the equivalent conventionally fuelled car to reflect the risk.

*https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/882196/vehicle-licensing-statistics-2019.pdf

Money_Grabber13579

ElefantEd said:

I've seen some stats suggesting that EVs are less likely to catch fire than ICEs eg

https://insideevs.com/news/561549/study-evs-smallest-fire-risk/

Though it does seem that the fires are harder to put out when they do occur in EVs. Petrol is quite hard to set on fire and is unlikely to explode, contrary to your typical hollywood movie car crash!

The risk of a fire in any car happening is still very low of course. Crossing the road is probably more dangerous than being in a battery EV.

It is most definitely not difficult to set petrol on fire. Diesel yes, petrol no. Myself and another family member got very badly burnt from a fire which was started with petrol - the petrol vapour ignited and resulted in the entire can of petrol going up, causing very serious injuries to my family member (less so myself but still severe arm burns).

[Deleted User]

She drives around with a tank full of flammable liquid, in a car powered by explosions.

ComicGeek

facade said:

The acid test is what the insurers think, and whether EVs are cheaper or more expensive than the equivalent conventionally fuelled car to reflect the risk.

There are a lot more variables than fire risk that insurers consider. Minor damage to batteries that can't be repaired seems to be a bigger issue than fire risk. 

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-11891229/Rising-number-electric-cars-minor-battery-damage-written-off.html  

Probably best to avoid any EVs that use batteries as part of the chassis, like Tesla. Future EVs will have replaceable batteries in the same way that engines can be replaced in a petrol car - not cheap or easy, but cheap enough and easy enough to avoid scrapping cars unnecessarily.

Herzlos

Petriix said:

MouldyOldDough said:

TadleyBaggie said:

Bit of a small sample to come to that conclusion. 

Its 100% of those who responded !

Your calculations are flawed. 

He doesn't like EV's; he's only reading the parts that say they are bad.

Herzlos

forgotmyname said:

facade said:

Richard Hammond turned one over and it set on fire, google "richard Hammond EV crash"

No worse than a petrol tank full of fuel really, but I wouldn't charge one in the house whilst I was asleep, same as the lithium packs for scooters/ebikes/drones etc. they are always setting on fire.

When a petrol/diesel car catches fire it doesn't carry on burning for several days. I think they said the batteries were still catching fire 3 days later?

Yeah the current approach is to isolate it and let it burn out, I think there were investigations into something akin to a shipping container to seal them in or allow them to be transported whilst burning.

The one big difference between a battery and liquid fuel is that the battery will stay where it is. If you have a fuel leak on a petrol car, then the fire will follow the petrol downhill.

You also don't need to worry about fuel vapour and exploding (if that's the correct term).


It's the same any other batteries - I don't leave them charging whilst asleep and don't charge the big stuff in the house if I can avoid it. But then I wouldn't be dealing with petrol in the house either.  Remember that petrol is much more volatile, and not something you really want to be dealing with even when it's not on fire (yet).

Diesel isn't so bad, admittedly, but I still wouldn't have it in the house.

Keep_pedalling

MouldyOldDough said:

Right - so the majority are with my OH ?

ie) EV's are not safe ?

No, your wife is just badly informed and irrational. There are around 100,000 car fires in the UK each year, and a large portion of those result from arson. There are approximately 100 deaths through car fires and in nearly all of them the fire followed an accident, with passengers and drivers not being able to exit the car due to incapacity or structural damage to the car. 

Around 1600 a year on Britain’s  roads are killed each year so the percentage of people killed by other factors are far greater so really your wife should not get in any vehicle if she really want to stay safe.Mind you as most accidents happen in the home she can never be safe.

An American insurance company did provided some data on car fires by type which showed EV fires as much lower than ICE cars, but hybrids much worse.

https://belux.edmo.eu/fact-check-do-electric-cars-catch-fire-more-often-than-combustion-engine-cars/#:~:text=Electric%20cars%2C%20according%20to%20the,catch%20fire%20the%20most%20often.

born_again

ComicGeek said:

facade said:

The acid test is what the insurers think, and whether EVs are cheaper or more expensive than the equivalent conventionally fuelled car to reflect the risk.

There are a lot more variables than fire risk that insurers consider. Minor damage to batteries that can't be repaired seems to be a bigger issue than fire risk. 

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-11891229/Rising-number-electric-cars-minor-battery-damage-written-off.html  

Probably best to avoid any EVs that use batteries as part of the chassis, like Tesla. Future EVs will have replaceable batteries in the same way that engines can be replaced in a petrol car - not cheap or easy, but cheap enough and easy enough to avoid scrapping cars unnecessarily.

Tesla replace batteries without any issues.
As do all other manufactures. 
Easier to replace a battery, than a ICE engine.