Help greatly appreciated!! Court claim form -parking fines

cnh25

Hello,

I have read through lots of threads already posted, multiple times and to be honest am feeling really overwhelmed and a bit confused! I would greatly appreciate a bit of advice/guidance as to where I am in the process...

I received 2x PCNs 1: 06/12/2018 2: 02/09/2019. PCN 1 was for not being in a bay... 2 was for not displaying a ticket. 

I received them at work, a NHS hospital. My shift time was 11-23.30, I was late for my shift due to driving round looking for a parking space, I parked safely out of a designated space to run into work, inform them and then to be able to nip out easily to check when a space became available (usually around lunchtime due to people leaving), I had parked off site many times previously but given the late finishing time felt unsafe to continue to do this, as at times I was walking up to 30 minutes at 11.30pm. Ticket 2, was a case of not paying because the archaic machine wasn't working, standard!

At the time I spoke to hospital staff, who wrongly advised me nothing could be done. 

I have now received a claim of £536.80 which I am not in a position to pay, nor do I feel is proportionate.

I have requested a SAR from UK Parking Control Ltd.
I have contacted my ex employer and they are investigating this. 
I have emailed DCB legal stating "I am emailing to inform you I am seeking debt advice but I deny any debt and the case must be put 'on hold' for not less than 30 days under the PAP for debt claims 2017.

I am currently awaiting correspondence from your client re. a SAR." 
I submitted the acknowledgement of service 23/05/23, received the following day, issued 19/05/23. (When do I have until to prepare my defence?)

Best case scenario my former employer will be able to get these cancelled, what is the worst case scenario? I file my defence, I have looked at some examples and will enter my own specifics and post here for guidance? 

Thanks in advance!

KeithP

cnh25 said:

I submitted the acknowledgement of service 23/05/23, received the following day, issued 19/05/23. (When do I have until to prepare my defence?)

Hello and welcome.
It looks like you may have received a County Court Claim Form with an Issue Date of 19 May 2023 and an Acknowledgment of Service was filed on 24 May 2023. Is that right?

With a Claim Issue Date of 19th May, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 21st June 2023 to file your Defence.

That's three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

B789

Never too late to get them cancelled but how much do you rely on your ex-employer putting in the effort?

Luckily, this is the bottom-dwelling duo of UKPC/DCB Legal. When the claim comes through, just defend using the template defence, an example of which can be found here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5r7vbqttho3q948/2023 defence.pdf?dl=0

You shouldn't have requested the SAR yet but as we are dealing with the intellectually malnourished duo, I doubt it will make much difference. A robustly defended claim by these scammers should result in an eventual discontinuation.

They're looking for mugs and gullible victims to poop their pants at the thought of a court claim to just pay up. When defended properly, the scumbags will give in and seek more gullible victims to prey on.

cnh25

Thanks both for your responses. I am so close to becoming one of those that poops their pants! 

KeithP said:

cnh25 said:

I submitted the acknowledgement of service 23/05/23, received the following day, issued 19/05/23. (When do I have until to prepare my defence?)

Hello and welcome.
It looks like you may have received a County Court Claim Form with an Issue Date of 19 May 2023 and an Acknowledgment of Service was filed on 24 May 2023. Is that right?

With a Claim Issue Date of 19th May, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 21st June 2023 to file your Defence.

Really appreciate this, I was worried it was imminent! 

B789

cnh25 said:

Thanks both for your responses. I am so close to becoming one of those that poops their pants! 

You are now in the right place to get the correct advice and so save yourself on laundry bills and other expensive mistakes such as paying these scammers anything.

Umkomaas

what is the worst case scenario?

Unlikely to get that far as they are more than likely to discontinue. Just keep going through the required phases, then find your name up in lights on the following thread:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6377263/dcb-legal-record-of-private-parking-court-claim-discontinuations/p1

I am so close to becoming one of those that poops their pants! 

Don't be daft, unless you're one of those whose shadow scares them. 😄

cnh25

this is my draft defence, any feedback would be greatly appreciated? 

The Defendant used the mentioned car park at Weston General Hospital when attending work. On the day of the first parking charge notice the Defendant received a ticket for not being within the lines of an allocated parking space, the Defendant parked outside of a parking space with the goal of checking for spaces throughout the working day, the space the Defendant parked in was not blocking any entrances/exits, nor effecting any other vehicles being able to park safely. The Defendant’s working hours were 11:00-23:30, given the late finish time the Defendant felt unsafe walking alone outside of the site where streets are dimly lit. The second ticket the Defendant was received for parking without displaying a ticket, on said day the pay and display machine was spitting coins out, a common occurrence at this site, at this time the machines offered no card payment option. House of Commons libraries outlines guidance that staff working shifts outside of times public transport is accessible should be made free of charge. At the time of the receiving the tickets I informally asked colleagues for advice and was ill advised to ignore payments, I moved out of my address and did not receive follow up mail prior to the current charges being requested. I left this place of work in 2020 during the Covid-19 pandemic, and the hospital trust has since merged with another, I have attempted to get in contact with estates management to request these parking charges are cancelled but had no response; until recently, the issue is now pending an investigation within the hospital trust to assist me in getting them cancelled, however the hospital trust now use a different parking company so is taking some time.

Fruitcake

That's too wordy and more suited to a witness statement that comes later in the process.

Your paragraph 2 should be something like, "It is admitted that the defendant was the keeper and driver at the material time".

Para 3 should about UKPC's inadequate signage and unlit at night, and about breaching the government's parking guidelines for patients and staff. Do not admit to parking incorrectly. (Don't do the PPC's job for them).

NHS car parking guidance 2022 for NHS trusts and NHS foundation trusts - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Have a look at other court claim threads to see how to word your para 3.


Did this occur at Weston-super-Mare hospital? If so it should be noted that UKPC no longer have the parking contract. You need to complain to the head of the hospital trust which is part of the Bristol Hospitals trust (if it was at W-s-M).
If it is W-s-M, then one of your defence points should be that they no longer hold the contract, and therefore you put them to strict proof they have the right to issue court claims in their own name

I have photos of the UKPC signs taken the day after they were installed, and some I think a while later. If you confirm that the location was W-s-M, I will post them up.

Coupon-mad

I'd remove the detail.  You are filling in the gaps that they haven't pleaded!

REMOVE ALL THIS:

"On the day of the first parking charge notice the Defendant received a ticket for not being within the lines of an allocated parking space, the Defendant parked outside of a parking space with the goal of checking for spaces throughout the working day, the space the Defendant parked in was not blocking any entrances/exits, nor effecting any other vehicles being able to park safely. The Defendant’s working hours were 11:00-23:30, given the late finish time the Defendant felt unsafe walking alone outside of the site where streets are dimly lit. The second ticket the Defendant was received for parking without displaying a ticket, on said day the pay and display machine was spitting coins out, a common occurrence at this site, at this time the machines offered no card payment option. House of Commons libraries outlines guidance that staff working shifts outside of times public transport is accessible should be made free of charge. At the time of the receiving the tickets I informally asked colleagues for advice and was ill advised to ignore payments, I moved out of my address and did not receive follow up mail prior to the current charges being requested. I left this place of work in 2020 during the Covid-19 pandemic, and the hospital trust has since merged with another,"


Are you using th dropbox defence supplied above by @B789?

If so (and you should) use it) then this is all you need as para 3 and 4 to replace those in the Dropbox version:


3.  The Defendant quite properly used the car park at Weston General Hospital when attending work. The Defendant worked in excess of 12 hour shifts and always parked safely and without causing obstruction, and was de facto authorised to park on site.  The Particulars provide no detail about what may be completely different allegations. As such, it is impossible to know how to respond and the Defendant did not receive subsequent letters due to moving house. Therefore, a Claim in 2023 with no detailed particulars or allegations - which puts the burden on the Defendant to recall unremarkable days 4 or 5 years ago - is absurd.

4.  The Defendant is aware that on many occasions outside of the staff's control, the pay and display machine was spitting coins out (there was no card payment option and staff could not just leave!). There were also times when marked bays were full due to shift overlap, and as long as NHS staff parked safely and unobstructively this was allowed by Estates staff and line managers. These issues were a common occurrence at this site. House of Commons libraries outlines guidance that NHS staff working shifts outside of times public transport is accessible should be made free of charge but instead tris parking firm targeted staff with multiple £100 charges.  This parking firm have since been removed by the NHS Trust due to their conduct and the number of complaints.  Despite no longer working at this Hospital, the Defendant has been proactive and contacted the Estates Management to request these parking charges are cancelled by their ex-agents.  The issue is now pending an investigation within the Hospital Trust named on the car park signs, and the Defendant takes the point that the NHS Trust are the principal who actually offered the parking spaces so this Claimant has no standing.

Questions:

Have you ALSO read the Template Defence thread first post which tells you how to submit your defence by email, and what to do about the next letter?

Did this Claim arrive at the right address or have you also got to tell the court & DCBLegal to change the address for all future letters relating to this claim?

KeithP

KeithP said:

With a Claim Issue Date of 19th May, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 21st June 2023 to file your Defence.

At the time I wrote that, you had three weeks to file a Defence.

You now have just three days to do that.

cnh25

Coupon-mad said:

Are you using th dropbox defence supplied above by @B789?

If so (and you should) use it) then this is all you need as para 3 and 4 to replace those in the Dropbox version:


3.  The Defendant quite properly used the car park at Weston General Hospital when attending work. The Defendant worked in excess of 12 hour shifts and always parked safely and without causing obstruction, and was de facto authorised to park on site.  The Particulars provide no detail about what may be completely different allegations. As such, it is impossible to know how to respond and the Defendant did not receive subsequent letters due to moving house. Therefore, a Claim in 2023 with no detailed particulars or allegations - which puts the burden on the Defendant to recall unremarkable days 4 or 5 years ago - is absurd.

Questions:

Have you ALSO read the Template Defence thread first post which tells you how to submit your defence by email, and what to do about the next letter?

Did this Claim arrive at the right address or have you also got to tell the court & DCBLegal to change the address for all future letters relating to this claim?

Fruitcake said:

Did this occur at Weston-super-Mare hospital? If so it should be noted that UKPC no longer have the parking contract. You need to complain to the head of the hospital trust which is part of the Bristol Hospitals trust (if it was at W-s-M).
If it is W-s-M, then one of your defence points should be that they no longer hold the contract, and therefore you put them to strict proof they have the right to issue court claims in their own name

I have photos of the UKPC signs taken the day after they were installed, and some I think a while later. If you confirm that the location was W-s-M, I will post them up.

Coupon Mad, in response to your questions: I have read it but need to remind myself of it! Letters arrived at the correct address my ex partner just didn't hand them over. When I 'officially' moved letters then came to the right address. Messy situation!

Fruit cake that would be great, it was WSM hospital 



So... to be clear shall I get rid of what I wrote and use points 3 and 4 coupon-mad wrote out there? Adding them to the defence document. 

I'm not sure what you mean by drop box, I haven't seen this