Court Case for unloading bulky furniture outside own (rented) residence

UnloadingShelves

I am so sorry! Yes I'm the same person and I initially had two log ins when first trying to post my first question. One of them wasn't getting approved so I opened another one with another email address (the one I've been using since the beginning in this thread). Now I wasn't able to log into it no matter what I tried. I am very sorry if I created confusion, I'll make sure I regain access to my other account and will only post from that one once I manage. Apologies and thank you for your understanding! 

UnloadTheShelves

Good afternoon, 

I posted my first plea for help over a year ago, and have appreciated every single piece of advice since, and only with your help I've made it this far. 

Fast forward to now: the court date is here and as if I didn't have enough anxiety already, it's going to take place at the Royal Courts of Justice in London. Talk about pressure 😖. 

Date is at end of August 2024, and this week we also received Gladstones Solicitors' Witness Statement. It also informs us that they will NOT be attending the hearing and informing the judge to make decision in their absence. 

(Quick reminder: I say "we/us" as my husband is the Defendant but I, his wife, am doing all the psperwork, posting here, writing defence etc, and plan to be his "representative" on the day - the correct term for this escapes me now, but I was advised here what form to fill in on the day already, and will be the main/only person to speak on the day). 

I have SO MANY QUESTIONS about their WS. I don't understand all of it, and they also make a remark in their point 26 that "they doubt the defendant would understand the complexities of the case" so this is making me even more angry as if they are already seeing themselves as more superior and assume to win 🤬! 

I really want to win this! Not because of not having to pay the £170 that they are claiming in their WS, but as a matter of principle and to add to the struggle of all the people who are victims of those predators and their attacks, this really needs to stop! 

Can I please ask if anyone knowledgeable here would be happy to go through all my questions, and especially HOW BEST to use the precedent of Jolson v Homeguard Services Ltd on which I hope to rely? I state that in my defence but in all honesty I have no idea how to use it in fact 😞. 

I am taking gazzilion of notes right now and putting them into a numbered list, would you be happy for me to post it here as I would massively appreciate ANY advice or input, or support from anyone who's been in the same boat at RCJ before. 

Thank you very much as always! 

h2g2

I'm not a lawyer, and I've been researching my own equivalent of this case, but please take advice from others who've been to court if possible.

There is a link to the full case of Jopson v Homeguard here: https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/JOPSON-V-HOMEGUARD-2906J-Approved.pdf

It would be an excellent idea to bring a copy with you to refer to, and well worth reading the full thing (if you haven't already).

The key thing is that the Jopson case is almost exactly identical to yours, and the judge ruled in Jopson's favour there.

In particular you should highlight that His Honour Judge Harris, in paragraph 21, said that a car stopped temporarily to unload was not "parked", and even highlighted a resident stopping to unload a piece of unwieldy furniture.

The Judge Harris also agreed that the lease in Ms Jopson's case included a right of access and that right of access included the incidental stops to access the property, and that trying to issue her a charge for stopping in this manner would override that right of access (paragraph 19).

LDast

UnloadTheShelves said:

Fast forward to now: the court date is here and as if I didn't have enough anxiety already, it's going to take place at the Royal Courts of Justice in London. Talk about pressure 😖. 

Have look at this short video to give you an idea of how the hearing will take place. Al though the court name sounds impressive, it is not going to be a "Rumple of the Bailey" style hearing with wigs and gowns:

https://youtu.be/n93eoaxhzpU

UnloadTheShelves said:

Date is at end of August 2024, and this week we also received Gladstones Solicitors' Witness Statement. It also informs us that they will NOT be attending the hearing and informing the judge to make decision in their absence. 

(Quick reminder: I say "we/us" as my husband is the Defendant but I, his wife, am doing all the psperwork, posting here, writing defence etc, and plan to be his "representative" on the day - the correct term for this escapes me now, but I was advised here what form to fill in on the day already, and will be the main/only person to speak on the day). 

Whilst Gladstones say they will not be attending, they are likely to send a hire by the hour advocate. That will be someone with little to know knowledge of the case.

I assume you are talking about being a Lay Representative for your husband on the day. Your husband will still have to be there although you will be representing him. He may still be asked questions.

UnloadTheShelves said:

I have SO MANY QUESTIONS about their WS. I don't understand all of it, and they also make a remark in their point 26 that "they doubt the defendant would understand the complexities of the case" so this is making me even more angry as if they are already seeing themselves as more superior and assume to win 🤬! 

You can add a response to that derogatory remark in their WS. You should request that the court strike out the claim due to the statement made by the claimant's witness where they claim to "doubt the defendant would understand the complexities of the case." This statement is unfounded, speculative, derogatory, lacks factual basis, and is irrelevant to the matters at hand. It is also prejudicial and does not adhere to the requirements for witness statements under CPR 32.1(1), CPR 32.1(2), CPR 32.4, CPR 32.8 and Practice Direction 32, paragraph 18.2.

The overriding objective of CPR 1.1 is to enable the court to deal with cases justly and at proportionate cost. This includes ensuring that the parties are on an equal footing. The defendant can argue that allowing speculative, unfounded and derogatory comments puts them at an unfair disadvantage and is contrary to the overriding objective of dealing with cases justly.

CPR 3.4(2) gives the court the power to strike out a claim if it discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing or defending the claim, or if it is an abuse of the court’s process. The defendant can request the court to strike out the claim on the basis that it has no reasonable grounds and is an abuse of the court's process by introducing irrelevant and prejudicial information.

UnloadTheShelves said:

Can I please ask if anyone knowledgeable here would be happy to go through all my questions, and especially HOW BEST to use the precedent of Jolson v Homeguard Services Ltd on which I hope to rely? I state that in my defence but in all honesty I have no idea how to use it in fact 😞. 

Already answered for you by @h2g2. Loading and unloading is not parking.

Coupon-mad

Just search the forum for:

Gladstones template Witness statement

or 

Gladstones template WS

and change the results to NEWEST.

The best info is on recent 2023 or 2024 Gladstones WS threads just like yours, but where the cases are already completed.

Instead of thinking no-one is going to turn up, you'd know & be prepared already that Gs almost always send a legal rep (from reading a few recent threads with this same WS).  It really helps newbies with hearing preparation and to gain confidence, and to relax a bit when you realise everyone gets that exact same boilerplate WS. 

Searching is so much better than asking Qs in isolation on your thread, I promise.  Nothing here is new.  Hundreds of people have already been in your shoes and won.

  

Coupon-mad

Can I please ask if anyone knowledgeable here would be happy to go through all my questions, and especially HOW BEST to use the precedent of Jolson v Homeguard Services Ltd on which I hope to rely? I state that in my defence but in all honesty I have no idea how to use it in fact.

Again: search for it here.

Read other people's words they used to refer to Jopson. You can copy their wording into your own WS.

Any question about ANYTHING: just search for up to 4 or 5 keywords and always change results to NEWEST. Don't read anything that's 5 years old or older.

e.g. Try these keywords:

Jopson rely unloading HHJ Harris

UnloadTheShelves

Thank you SO MUCH everyone for taking the time to reply! Beyond helpful, as always. I will be searching relevant threads and working on our WS in-between childcare duties, work and health stuff... I feel like stress will be the main thing in the family for the next two months... but anyway, i will not give up!

Thank you as always, Cupon-mad. I will deff search for everything but do have a couple of case specific questions that might not have been covered. It''s very late now and I am exhausted, but hopefully it will all make sense:

1. Gs's WS exhibit one is their contract for the PCM job with our landlord/landowner. It is from 2016. The thing is that it is not actually our landlord as the Housing Association changed owners! We moved in here in 2018 when it was no longer the previous Housing Association, but taken over by the new one. Is there any chance that the PCM's contract to monitor parking has since been invalid and they cannot use it against me as they are not my landlord? (probably not making sense, I realise that... If it's very unclear, i would try to reword tomorrow after i got some sleep).

2. Our tenancy agreement doesn't state anything about Parking - that is GOOD NEWS. However it does have this clause: 

"Roadways: Not to block local roadways and other vehicular access, and to keep them, and car parking spaces, clear of unroadworthy vehicles and other obstructions".

My husband's car was NOT blocking the roadway or other vehicular access, and he stopped where all delivery drivers stop, the royal mail cars, maintenance cars etc, and had he had a "parking permit" he could actually park there "legally", it is not a designated bay, but PCM's own penalty letter states that he could have asked for a permit to unload there but since he hasn't, he cannot now do it retrospectively. This means that it is not an illegal spot and he just "didn't ask for permit" so that essentially admits in itself that he did not block a roadway - correct?

Another thing I could use as an exhibit (should i though)? During Covid (and since the issue of the initial PCM) our landlord/landowner ALLOWED parking in the exact spot where my husband was unloading, and these vehicles were NOT blocking roadways etc. I have evidence as I photoed a poster in shared areas inside the building where it informs residence that they will be resuming parking controls and start issuing tickets again. This alone would be an evidence enough that unloading in that place is not against the Tenancy Agreement, and that our landlord allowed it, correct? 

3.
Important Question: in their WS, they write that "The Claimant submits that tenants are not exempt from complying with the terms and conditions applicable at the site. The Claimant highlights that the Defendant has failed to provide a copy of their tenancy agreement in support of their defence. The Claimant reserves the right to file a supplementary witness statement should a copy of the Defendant's tenancy agreement be received" 

3a) The question: CAN THE TENANCY AGREEMENT BE PART OF MY WS AS AN EXHIBIT? Or do I need to submit a new defence? I am lost with this one

3b) What would they want to resubmit as "supplementary WS" once I provide my Tenancy Agreement that could then be more in their favour? I don't want to give them the scope for more ammunition against me so am i right in thinking this: If I am supposed to send my WS two weeks before hearing date, if i leave it until nearly the last minute (like say I send it 16 days before hearing) would they then not have enough time to manage to create a new WS to fire back at me? And i could have the upper hand on the hearing day with my Exhibit in WS with my tenancy agreement where it doesn't say anything about parking (but nor does it say anything about loading/unloading and I don't know if that's good or bad?)

4. This one makes me furious!! Not only they doubt my ability to "understand the complexities of the case" (FANTASTIC ADVICE, LDast, Thank you! I will deff use all that in my WS), they also have the nerve to state in the WS that "The Claimant highlights that no unloading activity was observed by the warden. Furthermore, the Claimant submits that it is unlikely that the Defendant was unloading over 20 large pieces of furniture due to the size of the vehicle. The Claimant therefore denies the Defendant's assertions in regards to the alleged unloading of the vehicle"

They are basically saying that WE MADE THE UNLOADING up! The warden couldn't have observed unloading as he took photo evidence within the space of 13 seconds (!) in which time my husband was probably just inside the building putting the shelves by the lift. But what really p***es me off is that they doubt the pieces of furniture themselves!! I have screenshot evidence of the message exchange on Facebook with the person who gave us the dismantled cupboard shelves and doors, it clearly states that it was loads and they were heavy etc. Can i use this as an exhibit and another reason to ask the judge to strike it off as their "doubting me" is basically accusing me of lying?? 
(I also asked our housing association for the CCTV footage from inside and outside of the building but that would be another neverending thread right now - they are a notoriously awful Housing Association and treat us like dirt, so the short version is they didn't give me access to the CCTV but said they "would store it for my legal representative" which of course they know we do not have and cannot afford.) 

____

I literally used the rest of my remaining physical and mental energy I had left today typing all that up. Half of it is probably not making the sense I was hoping to make, but hopefully touches a little on what I wanted to ask that's relevant to this case and outside of their generic version of WS....  If what I wrote is clearly one big nonsense, please let me know gently as i can't handle much more right now, but will try to get a little more energy on another day. I am ever so grateful, as always. Best wishes to everyone. THANK YOU!
 

Coupon-mad

Yes to all of the above.

ALL sound really great as exhibits.  Along with the usual exhibits listed in the a-f evidence recommendations in the NEWBIES thread WS section, plus Jopson as well.

Everything you are asking about is valid evidence and is commonly exhibited with witness statements. Everyone exhibits their tenancy agreement or lease, where the case involves their own home.

You'll see when you search.  Loads of threads are exactly like yours.

Start thinking along the following lines for your questions:

example (this is a rhetorical question):

What 5 words would you search for on this forum, to find a recent example of a Gladstones residential unloading witness statement ?

Yep...

Fruitcake

1) Let the judge decide. You should highlight the change of landlord/HA etcetera in your WS and/or at the hearing. (You can challenge anything in the claimant's WS or anything their rep' says at the hearing).

2) You state that the vehicle was not blocking the roadway, therefore no breach of lease/etcetera occurred. Include any evidence that supports your case, including the fact that parking was permitted in that particular spot which demonstrates that loading/unloading at that particular spot would not cause an obstruction.

3) Include the relevant parts of your tenancy agreement that support your case. What it does not say about parking etcetera, and what it does say about your right to quiet enjoyment is crucial.
State that a reputable company would have established what rights residents already enjoyed by obtaining relevant copies of leases/tenancy agreements, and head lease where relevant before commencing operations. 
The Defendant highlights that the Claimant has failed to obtain a copy of their tenancy agreement in support of their claim, however, I have included the relevant parts of my tenancy agreement in order to narrow the issues as required by the courts.

4) The claimant's photographic evidence covers a period of 13 seconds, and the Defendant therefore denies the Claimant's assertions that I was not unloading the vehicle at the material time. I therefore require the parking attendant be present at the hearing, and that their contemporaneous notes be produced as evidence of the claim against me, in accordance with the Court Practice Rules,  Part 33 - Miscellaneous rules about evidence.

UnloadTheShelves

Thank you both SO MUCH! All this is so so very helpful and I am really very grateful. 
I have loads of ideas now on how to structure my WS and what all to include in support of the case, your advice on exact quotes is incredibly helpful Fruitcake, THANK YOU!

I am almost starting to get excited about this "project" of going to court with them and to challenge them, ha! Now it's just about finding enough child-free time to actually sit down to it and research it and write it before heading off on summer holidays where I really don't want to be thinking about GS bull***  argh....