Court Case for unloading bulky furniture outside own (rented) residence

UnloadTheShelves

***WE WON!!!***

thank you soooo soooo much for all the help here, I'll post more details ASAP as I'm still digesting it and off to celebrate first 🥂

It wasn't as straightforward as I thought it would be at all, and even though the claimant didn't send anyone, it took 90mins in total to reach a decision which was CASE DISMISSED!!

Ps: it was a in a proper court room too and didn't feel like a discussion at all, we were properly questioned! 

So grateful to everyone who so selflessly helps here! 

h2g2

Fantastic news @UnloadTheShelves. I'm looking forward to seeing (in due time, of course) your account of what happened, and what the judge's views were on the matter.

UnloadTheShelves

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***WE WON TODAY AND I HOPE THIS SUMMARY CAN BE HELPFUL TO ANYONE GOING THROUGH SIMILAR**

That's the least I can do as a thank you for all the help we got on here, maybe a point or two from my summary can help other forming their WS right now.... The hearing was the Royal Courts of Justice (in a proper courtroom), took 90 mins and felt intimidating, but the case was dismissed in the end - hurray!!!
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Once again, I would like to express my heartfelt thanks for all the help and support here. I don't think I would have the courage to take it all the way without the practical advice from here!

So as I mentioned already, the hearing took 90mins in total, with the Judge asking us to leave for 10-15mins to decide on the outcome, then he made a very long statement that ended in a conclusion that the case is dismissed. 

I will try to sum it all up into the following points.

- The hearing before us was also parking Control Management v Another Defendant. The Claimant didn't arrive and the defendant was out literally within 5 mins and told us the judge immediately dismissed the case as the Claimant didn't submit a WS, nor turned up to the hearing. So we had high hopes that our case would also go quickly as we already knew that no one was sent by the Claimant to our case either. 

- In our case, the Claimant did send a WS though (very dodgy one, as discussed in several posts in this thread) but no representation in the hearing

- So at the hearing was just us (my husband and I, Judge had no issue with me being the Lay Rep luckily). 

- I didn't get Cupon-Mad's reply that I need to bring up Preliminary matters by myself after intro until after today's hearing, so i didn't do that.... But i didn't really even have the chance even if i did know... The Judge was very clear that he will do the talking and the questioning and we shouldn't speak unless addressed. And he never gave us a chance to present general arguments, it was all very direct and specific questioning. I was getting a bit stressed at this point. 

- Judge informed us that he wasn't sent our WS so asked for our printed out copy which we did have for him. He then took about 10 mins ish reading through it,  but it appeared as if he skipped some paragraphs and pages and was going to his laptop a lot too... However at the end he said he read the whole WS apparently (with all the Exhibits it was 129 pages in total). 

- He didn't ask us to clarify anything from the WS... But to my great despair he said that he doesn't think Jopson case applies to us, as the Defendant there was a home owner (or lease holder, one of those terms), whereas our tenancy is an Assured Shorthold Tenancy and therefore the Jopson ruling is not applicable to us. I wanted to make a comment that i disagreed but was stopped short. 

- He asked a lot questions about how we get into our flat, how we access it, asked to describe in great detail  the walkways, corrdiors, stairs and lift....

- he did NOT ask ANYTHING about the alleged parking event, nothing AT ALL about my seven points of why I believe the case should be struck out as we firmly believe it has no merit. 

- he only asked about parking provision at the estate and if there was any at the material time. 

- He asked if we were aware that Family Mosaic merged with Peabody at some point in the past, to which i replied that we have lived there since 2018 and the landowner has always been Peabody since that time (alleged parking event was from 2020). 

- at this point I mentioned that in my WS I am also questioning the validity of the PCM contract between the Parking Control Management and Family Mosaic (who are NOT our landlord/landowner) as the Claimant's Exhibit of this contract was redacted in the Claimant's WS. The Judge was shocked, asked to see it and made a remark "Oh wow, that is clearly VERY redacted, they did not make those redaction in what they attached as the Exhibit to the Court" and he looked very shocked and unhappy about that. 

- all the above is pretty much it before he asked us to go out of the VERY OFFICIAL ROYAL COURTS OF JUSTICE COURTROOM out while he makes his decision (the setting was like in a movie i swear, even a witness stand and all!). At this point I was really stressed as I felt like we didn't address the real issue at all as to the case not even having any grounds... So I made a desperate plea and  asked if he could please make sure he read my paragraphs 11-46 as they address the several reasons why the case should be struck out, and i also made a point that my understanding of the Jopson case was such that it doesn't matter what type of tenancy a person has, or whether an owner or a tenant, but that in my view the ruling and conclusion of the case that "unloading is not parking" does apply to us and since it was an appeal case, and that I believe the case should be struck out. 

- at this point the Judge explained that a case can be struck out BEFORE  a hearing if the WS is available on time, and if it would be deemed a correct decision for it to be struck out, and that during a hearing a case can only be dismissed if deemed to be without a merit ( I am paraphrasing here a bit, forgive me if the jargon is a bit off, my memory is not the sharpest as i was really stressed about Jopson not doing the trick)....

-Anyway... fast forward to him sending us out and a very stressful 15ish minute wait when we literally couldn't predict which was the case will go as at no point we could actually argue for our case, and Jopson seemed to have been dismissed....

- once we went back in, the Judge started a very long speech and to our great relief and happiness, midway through it it became apparent that he is going to dismiss the case and was blowing the Claimant's WS into pieces!

I made those notes on those comments while he spoke:

1. very unhappy that the WS was not written by the witness/warden themselves

2. Claimant did not satisfy the burden of proof in the slightest

3. Satisfied that Jopson does apply as after questioning us on access to flat he was satisfied that we had "a right of way" - I am still confused on this one as to me Jopson was about "unloading not being parking" but it explains why he asked such detailed question of the building set-up?

4. Very unhappy about derogatory comment's in Claimant's WS and accepting my paragraphs on challenging this

5. Very unhappy about the Claimant's WS contradicting itself  within one single paragraph and again repeating how bad their WS is and that not written by Witness himself, and that the Claimant provided NO EVIDENCE to their claim, nor stating who even gave them the photos of the car allegedly parked in a contravention of parking terms, not even being clear what those terms were - again repeating this in a similar way several times as he was so unimpressed by this.

6. Making a detailed comment about the iffy PCM contract saying that he cannot find a company Family Mosaic in any 2020 register (something like House company List or something like that.... we actually discussed that here in this thread, one of the admins looked into it and I am so grateful for the advice I got about that, thank you again!!!!)

7. CRUCIALLY THOUGH, he made a remark that if it wre not for my own initiative to make it known to the court during the hearing that the Claimant redacted their exhibit of their PCM contract submitted to us, that he would never be aware of that as they received an exhibit that was not redacted. He said that had he been aware that this was the case, it being a breach of exhibits needing to be identical to all parties, that he would request for the case to be struck out. By this time I could finally start breathing again because I could see it will be dismissed for sure. 

8. About one of the para in Claimant's WS he said "This is not evidence, this is pleading, and it is unacceptable". 

9. Expressing that the Claimant saying that "unloading was highly unlikely" is "not evidence by any stretch of imagination", and since "since not providing any identification to who the real witness is and the Claimant not coming to the hearing, he cannot ask them the questions he would love to have answered" (by this time I started to like this judge :-)

10. Reached the conclusion that following all the points above (and some more which I can't remember) the case is dismissed as there are no grounds. 

11. THE STRESS WAS WORTH IT AND ONCE AGAIN, WE THANK YOU ALL!!!!

Coupon-mad

Hooray!  Well done both of you.

ANOTHER PCM ONE BITES THE DUST!

Did you ask for costs at the end?

I assume this is Gladstones who redacted the landowner contract for you but supplied a far less redacted version for the court.

Hmmm ... in future we need to remember to tell Gladstones case Defendants to challenge this at hearings - ask the Judge if they have the same document - and expose any differences. I once had a CEL case hearing where CEL supplied the landowner contract to court but not to the D.  This sort of conduct is wholly unreasonable.

LDast

Great court report. Thank you. 

Do we know the name of the judge?

fisherjim

Absolutely brilliant well done!

I agree about Royal Courts of Justice I attended there some years ago when my nephew won a compensation claim, like a film set, 

The judge involved then was so good he stopped the defence QC and told him to speak normal English as he couldn't understand a word and he was sure the claimant couldn't.

UnloadTheShelves

Thanks everyone! I was so overwhelmed at the end that I completely forgot to ask about the costs. But i have zero energy left in me anyway. 

Yes, I took note of the judge's name, am I allowed to post it here or PM it to admins? 

What are people's thoughts on the Jopson case not being accepted on the basis that "unloading is not parking" but that "the defendant had a right of way"? That one truly baffled me as I was pretty sure it would win it for us in a few minutes but that was not to be... 

Coupon-mad

You can name the Judge. We always do.

I just re-read Jopson and there is a fair bit in there about the terms of her lease and her vehicular right of way. The Judge was clever because his questioning managed to align your case with Jopson after all. 

UnloadTheShelves

Oh that's interesting, I haven't thought of that; even though I read the whole case, I didn't think this would be as relevant as the fact that we were also unloading and that was already established not to be parking. 

The Judge was Deputy District Judge Jamieson, and learning this makes me like him even more :-) 

Out of interest: is his final speech recorded and then typed up into the court order, or it will only say "case dismissed"? I can't wait to see it in writing... after all, it's been four years of hoping that this would be the outcome :-) 

Coupon-mad

Aaah no, you only get a transcript of the approved full judgment if you pay a fair bit to have it transcribed (as Miss Jopson or her lawyers did in her case).