Energy price cap from July 2023 (merged)

Dandytf

Pre Dimplex Quantum numbers, before SP July '23 potential drops.

1737.96 Yr

DD  144.83 Mnth 

Current DD 90

Additional req. +54.83

Your quote has fallen by £8.47 per month

Eco 7 post SP HBC 2yr Fixed Electric since mid '21

wrf12345

On standing charges, just to add, because both s/c's and unit rates are capped for the default tariff it is impossible for a company to offer a default tariff that has no standing charges and an increased unit rate even if it meets the monetary cap for the average user. This was down, apparently, to a previous minister rather than Ofgem but could be lifted by the new minister. Not being able to offer a default tariff with no standing charges makes it difficult to gain customer mass (and wrecked Ebico's business model). 

It is lucky for Octopus that they are so large and that many of older companies use their software, otherwise actually "threatening" the status quo would have seen them put out of business by changing the rules (see Ebico again).

As a first step to a customer focused industry, s/c's need to be removed from smart prepayment meters to reflect the huge savings that the industry make from the impossibility of running up a debt on them.

CSI_Yorkshire

Because people with smart prepayment meters don't use the grid somehow?

MattMattMattUK

wrf12345 said:

On standing charges, just to add, because both s/c's and unit rates are capped for the default tariff it is impossible for a company to offer a default tariff that has no standing charges and an increased unit rate even if it meets the monetary cap for the average user. This was down, apparently, to a previous minister rather than Ofgem but could be lifted by the new minister. Not being able to offer a default tariff with no standing charges makes it difficult to gain customer mass (and wrecked Ebico's business model). 

It is lucky for Octopus that they are so large and that many of older companies use their software, otherwise actually "threatening" the status quo would have seen them put out of business by changing the rules (see Ebico again).

No supplier wants to offer a tariff without standing charges as it would be business suicide. They would see an influx of very low users, those with solar etc. and would not be able to make enough profit on the unit rate to pass on the required network costs, a zero standing charge tariff would be idiotic.

wrf12345 said:

As a first step to a customer focused industry, s/c's need to be removed from smart prepayment meters to reflect the huge savings that the industry make from the impossibility of running up a debt on them.

The standing charge covers far more than debt, indeed debt bad debt is a very minor component of the total, the majority is from network costs. Also prepayment meters can and do run up debt and are also the most likely meters to be bypassed. They have higher operating costs due to the fees paid to retailers and card payment providers when payments are made by the customer.

strawb_shortcake

How do I find out what region I am definitely in? I had always assumed I was in South West, but a website I used yesterday said I was actually West Midlands. My standing charge appears to ve aligned with West Midlands??

MattMattMattUK

annabanana82 said:

How do I find out what region I am definitely in? I had always assumed I was in South West, but a website I used yesterday said I was actually West Midlands. My standing charge appears to ve aligned with West Midlands??

You should be able to find out from the link below, alternatively you can compare your current prices to the current regional price cap. 

 https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/finding-your-energy-supplier-or-network-operator

Mstty

wrf12345 said:

On standing charges, just to add, because both s/c's and unit rates are capped for the default tariff it is impossible for a company to offer a default tariff that has no standing charges and an increased unit rate even if it meets the monetary cap for the average user. This was down, apparently, to a previous minister rather than Ofgem but could be lifted by the new minister. Not being able to offer a default tariff with no standing charges makes it difficult to gain customer mass (and wrecked Ebico's business model). 

It is lucky for Octopus that they are so large and that many of older companies use their software, otherwise actually "threatening" the status quo would have seen them put out of business by changing the rules (see Ebico again).

As a first step to a customer focused industry, s/c's need to be removed from smart prepayment meters to reflect the huge savings that the industry make from the impossibility of running up a debt on them.

How do utilita offer a tariff with no standing charge then if it's illegal?

https://utilita.co.uk/energy

molerat

MattMattMattUK said:

annabanana82 said:

How do I find out what region I am definitely in? I had always assumed I was in South West, but a website I used yesterday said I was actually West Midlands. My standing charge appears to ve aligned with West Midlands??

You should be able to find out from the link below, alternatively you can compare your current prices to the current regional price cap. 

 https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/finding-your-energy-supplier-or-network-operator

Or look at your bill and check the supply number, that will be the definitive answer.  The first 2 digits of the long number are your region. https://www.energynetworks.org/customers/find-my-network-operator

14 = West Midlands

22 = South West

Strummer22

Looking ahead, I will be very curious what the October and January caps end up being. UK natural gas prices are way down from recent highs and keep falling: https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/uk-natural-gas

It looks to me like the current price is already much lower than anyone thought it would be at this stage. For example, if you click 'Forecast' on that link it says:

"UK Natural Gas is expected to trade at 93.72 GBp/Thm by the end of this quarter, according to Trading Economics global macro models and analysts expectations. Looking forward, we estimate it to trade at 133.23 in 12 months time."

If correct, that would be a 60% increase in just over a month and there currently don't seem to be any drivers for that. 

If natural gas prices continue to trend below everyone's expectations, the October and January price caps should also, theoretically, come in under expectations. Theoretically. Maybe.   

QrizB

Strummer22 said:

Looking ahead, I will be very curious what the October and January caps end up being. UK natural gas prices are way down from recent highs and keep falling: https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/uk-natural-gas

Gas futures at The ICE are also (currently) in the region of £100-120/therm for the coming winter, which is promising.

https://www.theice.com/products/910/UK-Natural-Gas-Futures/data?marketId=5419493