Occupational Health Refferal

Torry_Quine

Sadly as has been said if you aren't able to do the job then you can be dismissed. My husband was undergoing cancer treatment when his employer started proceedings to dismiss. 

pope

Undervalued said:

pope said:

BrassicWoman said:

pope said:

Because I have 20 years service and a long standing employee could I have a discussion with employer in regards to Reasonable adjustment being they keep my job open untill I have recovered. I just want to be nice to employer I would hate to mention to them that if they do dismiss me I will be going down the tribunal line.? 

If you cannot do the job, then you can't. Why would that go to tribunal?

I am not sure your concept of reasonable would be accepted by a judge - it's them as decides at the end of the day.

I would not take my employer to tribunal to cause them misery and compensation ££ it will actually be to get my job back. I just don't want to loose my job. Being on the waiting list for surgery could mean waiting months in my opinion it should be urgent surgery so I can start getting my life back on track again. But in the NHS eyes it's non urgent. Like I have said it could take months to get a date for surgery and then recovery which I know is going to take 6 months. 

I really am stuck in this situation I wish I had private health care cover would of been sorted out by now.

But you won't.
 
Whilst you might (or might not) have a valid claim a tribunal is virtually powerless to ensure you "get your job back".

Theoretically they can "order" it (or at least they could in the past - I am getting out of date) but it virtually never happened. The only sanction if the employer refused was a little extra compensation based on a few weeks pay. The can't order it in the sense of imposing a criminal penalty or a repeating amount of compensation until they comply.

If the employment relationship has broken down to the point that an employer has been taken to a tribunal and lost can you imagine what it would be like working there afterwards?

Whilst it is possible you may have a claim, given the disability aspects, as I think I said in one of you previous threads reasonable adjustments do not go anything like as far as many people imagine. The fact that many employers, to their credit, go the extra mile that doesn't meant that they legally have to. Some don't. Have you had any sound legal advice that what your are seeking is likely to be considered, legally speaking, reasonable?

Just because you wish it doesn't make it so.

I am going to phone a few solicitors who provide free legal advice. 

MattMattMattUK

pope said:

Undervalued said:

pope said:

BrassicWoman said:

pope said:

Because I have 20 years service and a long standing employee could I have a discussion with employer in regards to Reasonable adjustment being they keep my job open untill I have recovered. I just want to be nice to employer I would hate to mention to them that if they do dismiss me I will be going down the tribunal line.? 

If you cannot do the job, then you can't. Why would that go to tribunal?

I am not sure your concept of reasonable would be accepted by a judge - it's them as decides at the end of the day.

I would not take my employer to tribunal to cause them misery and compensation ££ it will actually be to get my job back. I just don't want to loose my job. Being on the waiting list for surgery could mean waiting months in my opinion it should be urgent surgery so I can start getting my life back on track again. But in the NHS eyes it's non urgent. Like I have said it could take months to get a date for surgery and then recovery which I know is going to take 6 months. 

I really am stuck in this situation I wish I had private health care cover would of been sorted out by now.

But you won't.
 
Whilst you might (or might not) have a valid claim a tribunal is virtually powerless to ensure you "get your job back".

Theoretically they can "order" it (or at least they could in the past - I am getting out of date) but it virtually never happened. The only sanction if the employer refused was a little extra compensation based on a few weeks pay. The can't order it in the sense of imposing a criminal penalty or a repeating amount of compensation until they comply.

If the employment relationship has broken down to the point that an employer has been taken to a tribunal and lost can you imagine what it would be like working there afterwards?

Whilst it is possible you may have a claim, given the disability aspects, as I think I said in one of you previous threads reasonable adjustments do not go anything like as far as many people imagine. The fact that many employers, to their credit, go the extra mile that doesn't meant that they legally have to. Some don't. Have you had any sound legal advice that what your are seeking is likely to be considered, legally speaking, reasonable?

Just because you wish it doesn't make it so.

I am going to phone a few solicitors who provide free legal advice. 

Speak to Citizen's Advice first, they will likely give you better advice at this stage, especially as there are no hard facts and everything is hypothetical.

It does seem in this situation that you are pushing your luck with your employer. Sharing relevant medical information with Occupational Health is entirely normal and is relevant to them making any potential concessions. If you are currently unable to do the job then they could dismiss you on capability grounds, that is an established legal position. They may choose to keep the job open until you are fit to return, but they are in no way obliged to. The occupational health process is part of both protecting you and the employer, if you refuse to engage with that properly it will make them more likely to dismiss you on capability grounds than less likely and if you do take that route in my opinion it is far from likely that you would win a subsequent employment tribunal. 

You might not have private health care, but have you looked at the option of paying privately? From a quality of life perspective you may end up deciding it is worth the cost. 

Undervalued

MattMattMattUK said:

pope said:

Undervalued said:

pope said:

BrassicWoman said:

pope said:

Because I have 20 years service and a long standing employee could I have a discussion with employer in regards to Reasonable adjustment being they keep my job open untill I have recovered. I just want to be nice to employer I would hate to mention to them that if they do dismiss me I will be going down the tribunal line.? 

If you cannot do the job, then you can't. Why would that go to tribunal?

I am not sure your concept of reasonable would be accepted by a judge - it's them as decides at the end of the day.

I would not take my employer to tribunal to cause them misery and compensation ££ it will actually be to get my job back. I just don't want to loose my job. Being on the waiting list for surgery could mean waiting months in my opinion it should be urgent surgery so I can start getting my life back on track again. But in the NHS eyes it's non urgent. Like I have said it could take months to get a date for surgery and then recovery which I know is going to take 6 months. 

I really am stuck in this situation I wish I had private health care cover would of been sorted out by now.

But you won't.
 
Whilst you might (or might not) have a valid claim a tribunal is virtually powerless to ensure you "get your job back".

Theoretically they can "order" it (or at least they could in the past - I am getting out of date) but it virtually never happened. The only sanction if the employer refused was a little extra compensation based on a few weeks pay. The can't order it in the sense of imposing a criminal penalty or a repeating amount of compensation until they comply.

If the employment relationship has broken down to the point that an employer has been taken to a tribunal and lost can you imagine what it would be like working there afterwards?

Whilst it is possible you may have a claim, given the disability aspects, as I think I said in one of you previous threads reasonable adjustments do not go anything like as far as many people imagine. The fact that many employers, to their credit, go the extra mile that doesn't meant that they legally have to. Some don't. Have you had any sound legal advice that what your are seeking is likely to be considered, legally speaking, reasonable?

Just because you wish it doesn't make it so.

I am going to phone a few solicitors who provide free legal advice. 

Speak to Citizen's Advice first, they will likely give you better advice at this stage, especially as there are no hard facts and everything is hypothetical.

It does seem in this situation that you are pushing your luck with your employer. Sharing relevant medical information with Occupational Health is entirely normal and is relevant to them making any potential concessions. If you are currently unable to do the job then they could dismiss you on capability grounds, that is an established legal position. They may choose to keep the job open until you are fit to return, but they are in no way obliged to. The occupational health process is part of both protecting you and the employer, if you refuse to engage with that properly it will make them more likely to dismiss you on capability grounds than less likely and if you do take that route in my opinion it is far from likely that you would win a subsequent employment tribunal. 

You might not have private health care, but have you looked at the option of paying privately? From a quality of life perspective you may end up deciding it is worth the cost. 

I certainly agree this is all hypothetical at the moment.

IIRC this all started with a road traffic accident which the OP feels was not their fault? The OP was then unhappy with the hospital treatment they received and are now waiting for a hopefully corrective surgery which the NHS do not consider to be urgent.

If all that is correct and as a consequence the OP ends up losing their job, then any compensation should really come from the other party to the accident's insurance and / or, just possibly, the NHS if the initial treatment was indeed defective.

None of this is the employer's fault.....

Again IIRC, the OP feels that the employer has not made "reasonable adjustments" to allow the OP to do some work although their GP advises against working at all at the moment.

What I am less clear about is if the OP is actually disabled for the purposes of employment law? If they were not classed as disable before the accident (7 months ago) then they are very unlikely to be classed as disabled now, particularly if the problem is likely to be fixed when the NHS get round to doing the surgery.

Unless there is a disability (for employment law purposes) the employer is not obliged to make any adjustments at all.

Wonka_2

Undervalued said:
 

I certainly agree this is all hypothetical at the moment.

IIRC this all started with a road traffic accident which the OP feels was not their fault? The OP was then unhappy with the hospital treatment they received and are now waiting for a hopefully corrective surgery which the NHS do not consider to be urgent.

If all that is correct and as a consequence the OP ends up losing their job, then any compensation should really come from the other party to the accident's insurance and / or, just possibly, the NHS if the initial treatment was indeed defective.

None of this is the employer's fault.....

Again IIRC, the OP feels that the employer has not made "reasonable adjustments" to allow the OP to do some work although their GP advises against working at all at the moment.

What I am less clear about is if the OP is actually disabled for the purposes of employment law? If they were not classed as disable before the accident (7 months ago) then they are very unlikely to be classed as disabled now, particularly if the problem is likely to be fixed when the NHS get round to doing the surgery.

Unless there is a disability (for employment law purposes) the employer is not obliged to make any adjustments at all.

Always more interesting when the background is provided.

Assuming correct then the OH team will be wanting to see that the OP has followed any medical instructions given post-accident and the Employer aren't paying for something covered by insurance or a 3rd party i.e. why should employer pay long-term sick pay where recovery of costs may be made from 3rd party to the OP in the future

As a suggestion to @pope does your company offer private healthcare to any levels of staff/management ? Is there a discussion to be had with OH about whether they can influence the acceleration of surgery/treatment via this route to allow a swifter return to work and therefore save your job/career ? If not, and with an open ended waiting list in the NHS currently, it wouldn't be a surprise if they lose patience leaving you to recover costs/loss of earnings via 3rd party claim

pope

MattMattMattUK said:

pope said:

Undervalued said:

pope said:

BrassicWoman said:

pope said:

Because I have 20 years service and a long standing employee could I have a discussion with employer in regards to Reasonable adjustment being they keep my job open untill I have recovered. I just want to be nice to employer I would hate to mention to them that if they do dismiss me I will be going down the tribunal line.? 

If you cannot do the job, then you can't. Why would that go to tribunal?

I am not sure your concept of reasonable would be accepted by a judge - it's them as decides at the end of the day.

I would not take my employer to tribunal to cause them misery and compensation ££ it will actually be to get my job back. I just don't want to loose my job. Being on the waiting list for surgery could mean waiting months in my opinion it should be urgent surgery so I can start getting my life back on track again. But in the NHS eyes it's non urgent. Like I have said it could take months to get a date for surgery and then recovery which I know is going to take 6 months. 

I really am stuck in this situation I wish I had private health care cover would of been sorted out by now.

But you won't.
 
Whilst you might (or might not) have a valid claim a tribunal is virtually powerless to ensure you "get your job back".

Theoretically they can "order" it (or at least they could in the past - I am getting out of date) but it virtually never happened. The only sanction if the employer refused was a little extra compensation based on a few weeks pay. The can't order it in the sense of imposing a criminal penalty or a repeating amount of compensation until they comply.

If the employment relationship has broken down to the point that an employer has been taken to a tribunal and lost can you imagine what it would be like working there afterwards?

Whilst it is possible you may have a claim, given the disability aspects, as I think I said in one of you previous threads reasonable adjustments do not go anything like as far as many people imagine. The fact that many employers, to their credit, go the extra mile that doesn't meant that they legally have to. Some don't. Have you had any sound legal advice that what your are seeking is likely to be considered, legally speaking, reasonable?

Just because you wish it doesn't make it so.

I am going to phone a few solicitors who provide free legal advice. 

Speak to Citizen's Advice first, they will likely give you better advice at this stage, especially as there are no hard facts and everything is hypothetical.

It does seem in this situation that you are pushing your luck with your employer. Sharing relevant medical information with Occupational Health is entirely normal and is relevant to them making any potential concessions. If you are currently unable to do the job then they could dismiss you on capability grounds, that is an established legal position. They may choose to keep the job open until you are fit to return, but they are in no way obliged to. The occupational health process is part of both protecting you and the employer, if you refuse to engage with that properly it will make them more likely to dismiss you on capability grounds than less likely and if you do take that route in my opinion it is far from likely that you would win a subsequent employment tribunal. 

You might not have private health care, but have you looked at the option of paying privately? From a quality of life perspective you may end up deciding it is worth the cost. 

You are right private health care cover for the future is something I am thinking about. As you never know what turn life brings.

pope

Wonka_2 said:

Undervalued said:
 

I certainly agree this is all hypothetical at the moment.

IIRC this all started with a road traffic accident which the OP feels was not their fault? The OP was then unhappy with the hospital treatment they received and are now waiting for a hopefully corrective surgery which the NHS do not consider to be urgent.

If all that is correct and as a consequence the OP ends up losing their job, then any compensation should really come from the other party to the accident's insurance and / or, just possibly, the NHS if the initial treatment was indeed defective.

None of this is the employer's fault.....

Again IIRC, the OP feels that the employer has not made "reasonable adjustments" to allow the OP to do some work although their GP advises against working at all at the moment.

What I am less clear about is if the OP is actually disabled for the purposes of employment law? If they were not classed as disable before the accident (7 months ago) then they are very unlikely to be classed as disabled now, particularly if the problem is likely to be fixed when the NHS get round to doing the surgery.

Unless there is a disability (for employment law purposes) the employer is not obliged to make any adjustments at all.

Always more interesting when the background is provided.

Assuming correct then the OH team will be wanting to see that the OP has followed any medical instructions given post-accident and the Employer aren't paying for something covered by insurance or a 3rd party i.e. why should employer pay long-term sick pay where recovery of costs may be made from 3rd party to the OP in the future

As a suggestion to @pope does your company offer private healthcare to any levels of staff/management ? Is there a discussion to be had with OH about whether they can influence the acceleration of surgery/treatment via this route to allow a swifter return to work and therefore save your job/career ? If not, and with an open ended waiting list in the NHS currently, it wouldn't be a surprise if they lose patience leaving you to recover costs/loss of earnings via 3rd party claim

My company only offers private health care cover to senior management I am on a lower scale so no entitlement for me. I have talked to PALS at the hospital about the long waiting list but unfortunately they have said nothing can be done and they can't help. I have also a emaild to head of divisional Orthopaedic trauma at the hospital again I have been told due to junior staff shortage and clinically my case is not life threatening.

So again no surgery can not be done quicker. 

TBagpuss

BrassicWoman said:

If there are no adjustments which could be reasonably made to enable you to do your job (or another job) then yes, they could dismiss. 

Equally, if you don't consent to the release of medical records they will make decisions based on the information they do have, which may not be in your best interests. 

Wonka_2

pope said:

My company only offers private health care cover to senior management I am on a lower scale so no entitlement for me. I have talked to PALS at the hospital about the long waiting list but unfortunately they have said nothing can be done and they can't help. I have also a emaild to head of divisional Orthopaedic trauma at the hospital again I have been told due to junior staff shortage and clinically my case is not life threatening.

So again no surgery can not be done quicker. 

Understand the issue on whether you're officially covered but in these situations there's often some flexibility. If you're a valued member of staff and the cost of you being absent is greater than the cost of accelerated treatment is there some influence/contribution they could give towards private treatment ? Or alternatively if it were to be career/job-saving would you invest behind private treatment (or if there's a current claim against a 3rd party re the accident can this be added/become part of the claim ?)

Bobbobbobingalong

Undervalued said:

MattMattMattUK said:

pope said:

Undervalued said:

pope said:

BrassicWoman said:

pope said:

Because I have 20 years service and a long standing employee could I have a discussion with employer in regards to Reasonable adjustment being they keep my job open untill I have recovered. I just want to be nice to employer I would hate to mention to them that if they do dismiss me I will be going down the tribunal line.? 

If you cannot do the job, then you can't. Why would that go to tribunal?

I am not sure your concept of reasonable would be accepted by a judge - it's them as decides at the end of the day.

I would not take my employer to tribunal to cause them misery and compensation ££ it will actually be to get my job back. I just don't want to loose my job. Being on the waiting list for surgery could mean waiting months in my opinion it should be urgent surgery so I can start getting my life back on track again. But in the NHS eyes it's non urgent. Like I have said it could take months to get a date for surgery and then recovery which I know is going to take 6 months. 

I really am stuck in this situation I wish I had private health care cover would of been sorted out by now.

But you won't.
 
Whilst you might (or might not) have a valid claim a tribunal is virtually powerless to ensure you "get your job back".

Theoretically they can "order" it (or at least they could in the past - I am getting out of date) but it virtually never happened. The only sanction if the employer refused was a little extra compensation based on a few weeks pay. The can't order it in the sense of imposing a criminal penalty or a repeating amount of compensation until they comply.

If the employment relationship has broken down to the point that an employer has been taken to a tribunal and lost can you imagine what it would be like working there afterwards?

Whilst it is possible you may have a claim, given the disability aspects, as I think I said in one of you previous threads reasonable adjustments do not go anything like as far as many people imagine. The fact that many employers, to their credit, go the extra mile that doesn't meant that they legally have to. Some don't. Have you had any sound legal advice that what your are seeking is likely to be considered, legally speaking, reasonable?

Just because you wish it doesn't make it so.

I am going to phone a few solicitors who provide free legal advice. 

Speak to Citizen's Advice first, they will likely give you better advice at this stage, especially as there are no hard facts and everything is hypothetical.

It does seem in this situation that you are pushing your luck with your employer. Sharing relevant medical information with Occupational Health is entirely normal and is relevant to them making any potential concessions. If you are currently unable to do the job then they could dismiss you on capability grounds, that is an established legal position. They may choose to keep the job open until you are fit to return, but they are in no way obliged to. The occupational health process is part of both protecting you and the employer, if you refuse to engage with that properly it will make them more likely to dismiss you on capability grounds than less likely and if you do take that route in my opinion it is far from likely that you would win a subsequent employment tribunal. 

You might not have private health care, but have you looked at the option of paying privately? From a quality of life perspective you may end up deciding it is worth the cost. 

I certainly agree this is all hypothetical at the moment.

IIRC this all started with a road traffic accident which the OP feels was not their fault? The OP was then unhappy with the hospital treatment they received and are now waiting for a hopefully corrective surgery which the NHS do not consider to be urgent.

If all that is correct and as a consequence the OP ends up losing their job, then any compensation should really come from the other party to the accident's insurance and / or, just possibly, the NHS if the initial treatment was indeed defective.

None of this is the employer's fault.....

Again IIRC, the OP feels that the employer has not made "reasonable adjustments" to allow the OP to do some work although their GP advises against working at all at the moment.

What I am less clear about is if the OP is actually disabled for the purposes of employment law? If they were not classed as disable before the accident (7 months ago) then they are very unlikely to be classed as disabled now, particularly if the problem is likely to be fixed when the NHS get round to doing the surgery.

Unless there is a disability (for employment law purposes) the employer is not obliged to make any adjustments at all.

Unless of course, the present predicament would ordinarily be classed as a disability then, if the corrective surgery is certain to take more than 5 months to be performed there is an argument that the condition will last for in excess of 12 months so it may well be covered.