Debt card used at 6am on bus, not by us, bank no help?

eskbanker

Jon_01 said:

I take the point that the transaction could have been made the day before and only shown then First's accounting process caught up at 6am that morning, but we didn't leave the house on the Sunday and neither did the card!  But the transaction is flagged as 'contactless' which I can't explain?

Not just the day before - if, hypothetically, she'd made a journey and the payment hadn't been correctly processed for whatever reason, the company could belatedly claim it days/weeks/months later via some sort of back office process that results in a slightly different description appearing on a statement, but with a valid contactless authorisation attached?

PloughmansLunch

My first thought is that a batch process bundled all the weekend payments together for the next working day as it's possible nothing would be processed on a sunday. Is there a cleared payment showing on saturday AND on the monday, so two separate transactions?

I remember you have to blip the app QR code near the driver, but if two payments have gone through is it possible contactless picked up by sheer proximity e.g. wallet and phone held together (or cards in a phone case), or cards in a shoulder bag? I was once charged twice by First through Apple Pay and it took absolutely ages to get anywhere: mticket-support@firstgroup.com might be worth a try if more than one payment has been taken. Life is too short to go in person to Bristol Bus station and have a moan (speaking from experience).

miller

eskbanker said:

Not just the day before - if, hypothetically, she'd made a journey and the payment hadn't been correctly processed for whatever reason, the company could belatedly claim it days/weeks/months later via some sort of back office process that results in a slightly different description appearing on a statement, but with a valid contactless authorisation attached?

I used my Chase card on a bus and the initial authorisation was for 10p (it must have gone online for that), this dropped off after a few days and the correct amount was shown. Looking at the transaction entry it is described as contactless. Would they have attached the original 10p authorisation code for that transaction or just settled it without? That detail is not present on customer facing information.

Take Transport for London, they do a similar initial process and then work out how much to settle at the end of the day. I wouldn't be surprised if that total amount was described as contactless on a statement even though you haven't specifically tapped for that amount.

eskbanker

Yes, my understanding is that when using a contactless card to pay for something with an unknown value at that time (such as transportation), you're effectively authorising the merchant to debit the account with whatever value is appropriate once known later on, i.e. no subsequent authorisation for the actual value is involved (or needed) but the original one is attached to the transaction.

born_again

Jon_01 said:

PloughmansLunch said:

Jon_01 said:

MSE_James said:

First Great Western is a train company, not a bus company. (These days branded Great Western Railway, but the legal name is First Greater Western)

What EXACTLY is the merchant name on the bank statement?

My apologizes, it wasn't First Great Western, I was misremembering and my wife wasn't here for me to check.

The Statement says:

---------------------

FIRST WEST OF ENGL

Bus Lines, Charters, Tour Buses

------------------------

And that it was a contactless payment.

The fraud agent at Halifax told us that, from what he can see on the backend info, is that it's a catch all acc for First Group used for bus travel in Bath?

My Wife uses First Bus on Saturdays to attend a course and that shows as:

-------------------

FIRST BUS - MOBILE

Bus Lines, Charters, Tour Buses

--------------------

That's a transaction using the First Bus app.

We live in South Gloucestershire, on the edge of Bristol. We have never used a bus in Bath ever, or for that matter a First Bus anywhere outside Bristol.

First West of England isn't just Bath though - it's also Bristol, outer Bristol (Kingswood etc merging into South Glos), South Glos itself and bits (maybe all?) of Somerset & Wiltshire.

It's been a while since I caught a bus in the area but checking back on my bank statements the payments are usually FIRST BUS - MOBILE like you say but I also have a few FIRST BUS as well so not consistent. Does the payment amount match or differ from the usual Saturday amount?

The 'FIRST BUS - MOBILE' is the app and is what has shown on the statement for as far back as those trips go (over 18 months).  And the Saturday charge is correct.

The 'FIRST WEST OF ENGL' is the 6am charge last Monday (the bank holiday) and can't have been made by her as she was in bad at that time and the card was in her handbag.

I take the point that the transaction could have been made the day before and only shown then First's accounting process caught up at 6am that morning, but we didn't leave the house on the Sunday and neither did the card!  But the transaction is flagged as 'contactless' which I can't explain?

It could have been made at any point in the last 6 months in reality.

A example of this is it is not uncommon for airlines to take contactless payments while in flight. If they forget to connect the terminal once back on ground. These transactions do not get processed. BA were XXX for doing this. You would then get months worth of transactions on 1 day & lots of people saying never flew on that date. But when checking back through their accounts when they did travel.
Guess what..

Yep no transaction for the purchase.🤷‍♀️

enthusiasticsaver

6am is probably the  time the payment was processed not the time the card was used to tap in and tap out.  I often use First buses and they usually take a token payment of £1 immediately but the actual charge usually goes through first thing 2 days later. If she definitely did not use that bus at all on the days preceding the charge then I would approach Halifax fraud department.  It may be a small amount but on priniciple you should make them aware.  My husbands card was cloned several years ago and a transaction claimed he used his card on the eurotunnel even though he was in the Midlands at the time.  Our bank Santander refunded immediately and sent him out a new card. 

TheBanker

Sorry if this has already been answered, but is the unrecognised transaction for the same amount as your partner's usual bus ticket? 

Sea_Shell

Have you been able to otherwise reconcile every other transaction made in the last 6 months?

Do you keep records that detailed?

If not, from what others have said, its probably a hangover transaction from a while ago.

miller

e.g. this MSE article from 5 years' ago:

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2018/02/tesco-takes-payments-from-customers-cards-months-after-they-went-shopping/

Saver73

Might be worth having a look at the First Bus Customer Transaction Portal, if you haven't already, as it may give additional information, usually it shows details of the bus stop and number bus boarded, as well as journey details.  There is also an office hours phone number for payment issues. 

I check my bus journeys via this portal against my bank statement, as the contactless payments don't show on the actual day of travel, as some other posters have said.  I had contactless payments showing on my statement for Monday 1 May which was a day I didn't travel on the bus at all but I did travel on the previous Friday and Saturday.