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Debt card used at 6am on bus, not by us, bank no help?

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  • TheBanker
    TheBanker Posts: 2,217 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    My wife had a transaction pop onto her phone last night. Her card had been used on a bus (tap on tap off) at 6am last Monday, the bank holiday.<\/p>

    We were both in bed at that time and the card was in her bag.<\/p>

    She called the bank and was told that as the token was the same as the card, it had to have been someone using that card. They wouldn't hear anything past that, saying that if we hadn't used it, then someone else in the house must have had access and used. There is no one else in the house.<\/p>

    They have cancelled the card, but they're not going to look any further into it.<\/p>

    Is there any point pushing this with them? It's not a lot of money, but I found their attitude very negative to say the least… <\/p>","bodyRaw":"[{\"type\":\"p\",\"children\":[{\"text\":\"My wife had a transaction pop onto her phone last night. Her card had been used on a bus (tap on tap off) at 6am last Monday, the bank holiday.\"}]},{\"type\":\"p\",\"children\":[{\"text\":\"We were both in bed at that time and the card was in her bag.\"}]},{\"type\":\"p\",\"children\":[{\"text\":\"She called the bank and was told that as the token was the same as the card, it had to have been someone using that card. They wouldn't hear anything past that, saying that if we hadn't used it, then someone else in the house must have had access and used. There is no one else in the house.\"}]},{\"type\":\"p\",\"children\":[{\"text\":\"They have cancelled the card, but they're not going to look any further into it.\"}]},{\"type\":\"p\",\"children\":[{\"text\":\"Is there any point pushing this with them? It's not a lot of money, but I found their attitude very negative to say the least… \"}]}]","format":"rich2","dateInserted":"2023-05-03T09:55:32+00:00","insertUser":{"userID":147028,"name":"Jon_01","title":"","url":"https:\/\/forums.moneysavingexpert.com\/profile\/Jon_01","photoUrl":"https:\/\/us-noi.v-cdn.net\/6031891\/uploads\/defaultavatar\/nFA7H6UNOO0N5.jpg","dateLastActive":"2023-05-03T12:21:08+00:00","banned":0,"punished":0,"private":false,"label":"Forumite<\/b><\/span>"},"displayOptions":{"showUserLabel":false,"showCompactUserInfo":true,"showDiscussionLink":true,"showPostLink":true,"showCategoryLink":false,"renderFullContent":false,"expandByDefault":false},"url":"https:\/\/forums.moneysavingexpert.com\/discussion\/6444050\/debt-card-used-at-6am-on-bus-not-by-us-bank-no-help","embedType":"quote","name":"Debt card used at 6am on bus, not by us, bank no help?","embedStyle":"rich_embed_card"}"> https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6444050/debt-card-used-at-6am-on-bus-not-by-us-bank-no-help

    Could her card have somehow been cloned/skimmed at a previous occaision? Any funny looking things around the card slots of ATMs? Also maybe ask the bank if it's registered on any digital wallets (Apple Pay, Google pay etc.).

    The ApplePay suggestion is a good one - I have seen fraud in the past where the criminal has managed to register someone else's card for ApplePay. Although a bus transaction may seem odd, it could have been the fraudster checking if their plan worked.

    The other possibility I would suggest is that this relates to a previous bus journey, where for some reason the machine didn't download its transactions straight away. But from what the OP has said the cardholder doesn't normally pay for their bus journeys in this way. If they have the card registered with a bus company, it might be worth logging into their account to see if this transaction is listed (depending on which bus company it is and how their systems work). 

    Also, I have to ask this, is there anyone else in your house who might have borrowed the card? It is a sad fact that a lot of fraud is done by someone known to the victim. 


  • Jon_01
    Jon_01 Posts: 5,915 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 3 May 2023 at 2:52PM
    TheBanker said:

    Could her card have somehow been cloned/skimmed at a previous occaision? Any funny looking things around the card slots of ATMs? Also maybe ask the bank if it's registered on any digital wallets (Apple Pay, Google pay etc.).

    The ApplePay suggestion is a good one - I have seen fraud in the past where the criminal has managed to register someone else's card for ApplePay. Although a bus transaction may seem odd, it could have been the fraudster checking if their plan worked.

    The other possibility I would suggest is that this relates to a previous bus journey, where for some reason the machine didn't download its transactions straight away. But from what the OP has said the cardholder doesn't normally pay for their bus journeys in this way. If they have the card registered with a bus company, it might be worth logging into their account to see if this transaction is listed (depending on which bus company it is and how their systems work). 

    Also, I have to ask this, is there anyone else in your house who might have borrowed the card? It is a sad fact that a lot of fraud is done by someone known to the victim. 


    Thanks, and to everyone that replied.

    Halifax say that the token used confirms that it was the card that was used to enact the transaction and that the token would be different if the info had been used with ApplePay/GooglePay ect.

    She has never used the bus company that appears on the transaction info, it doesn't run in our area. She also has never used the tap on/tap off process, she has the app installed for the local bus company and uses that.  This produces a different transaction type on her statement.

    There is no one else in the house, just us and at 6am on bank holiday Monday we were both asleep and the card was in her bag.

    I cannot explain this at all?  I just know 100% that this card cannot have been used at that time for this transaction.
  • Do you mind sharing the name of the bus company?

    It's possible it is one of their subsidiaries etc
  • Grumpelstiltskin
    Grumpelstiltskin Posts: 5,412 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Have you asked the bus company if they have CCTV of the transaction? I guess 6am on a bank holiday there wasn't many people using the bus.
    If you go down to the woods today you better not go alone.
  • Have you asked the bus company if they have CCTV of the transaction? I guess 6am on a bank holiday there wasn't many people using the bus.
    GDPR - Doubt they will give anything over. I tried before when I had fraud of £1500. They pass it to the police if it gets that far. Mine did not.
  • Section62
    Section62 Posts: 9,685 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Fourth Anniversary Name Dropper
    Jon_01 said:

    She has never used the bus company that appears on the transaction info, it doesn't run in our area. She also has never used the tap on/tap off process, she has the app installed for the local bus company and uses that.  This produces a different transaction type on her statement.

    Has she had one of the 'normal' type transactions go through after the rogue one?

    One possibility is the bus company have changed their systems, maybe using a different company to process the transactions which aren't going through at the exact time the journey was made.

    But if there have been subsequent transactions of the normal/old type than that scenario would be less likely.
  • miller
    miller Posts: 1,682 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    I've not been on the current incarnation of Tap In / Tap Off buses, but from the main company websites there seems two methods of implementation. Tapping in on the driver's ticket machine and tapping off either at the exit door, if the bus has one, or at the second reader (presumably mounted on the cab gate).
    It's conceivable that it could be possible to brush past the tap out reader at least and maybe if the card was close to it, it would pick it up? I'd be tempted to ask the bank to clarify the timing - 6am looks a bit odd on a Bank Holiday when many run much reduced services.
  • WillPS
    WillPS Posts: 5,120 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Newshound! Name Dropper
    6am is likely when the overnight batch process happens; they typically charge once at the of service to allow any daily caps to work properly.
  • ForumUser7
    ForumUser7 Posts: 2,441 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    Brie said:
    I would simply tell them you want to raise a complaint about a poor customer service experience when you notified them of fraud on her account.  Tell them firmly it wasn't possibly her using the card nor anyone else in the house "borrowing" her card to use. 

    And if anyone at the bank has the temerity to suggest it's a trivial amount then simply state if it's that trivial they won't mind crediting that to her account along with a suitable extra for your/her time they have wasted.
    ^This

    Also, although it was a trivial amount this time, it is the fact that it happened too that is concerning - they need to figure out how this occurred
    If you want me to definitely see your reply, please tag me @forumuser7 Thank you.

    N.B. (Amended from Forum Rules): You must investigate, and check several times, before you make any decisions or take any action based on any information you glean from any of my content, as nothing I post is advice, rather it is personal opinion and is solely for discussion purposes. I research before my posts, and I never intend to share anything that is misleading, misinforming, or out of date, but don't rely on everything you read. Some of the information changes quickly, is my own opinion or may be incorrect. Verify anything you read before acting on it to protect yourself because you are responsible for any action you consequently make... DYOR, YMMV etc.
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