Rights on a faulty car

DarloTerrier

Hi
Purchased a car through a finance company on 13th February. Had to use their recommended garage. in a different town to me ( so I didn't couldn't realistically view it ). However the car was advertised "12 month MOT with no advisories, £0 tax, full service history, comprehensive warranty" - I still have evidence of this. So I trusted that it would be in good condition and bought it based on those statements.
On delivery the car had an obvious suspension problem. The warranty company said suspension wasn't covered, so the dealer advised to take it back to their garage to look at - not possible due to distance. We agreed that I would use my usual garage and he would reimburse me, which after a bit of chasing he did - fair enough.
The car now has a major timing belt problem ( I'm no car expert ) which has had a knock on effect for other parts of the engine. In total this is going to cost me over £1000. The warranty company again are saying its not covered. The warranty runs out on 13th May ( 3 months since car purchase ). Am I within my rights to refuse the car due to the problems, as I'm within the first 3 months of purchase? Should I contact the finance company to report to them first, or the dealer where I got it from?

I should add that the car came with 12 months MOT WITH advisories, the tax was £30 and not zero, it did have some service history but nothing since 2021, and what's the definition of a COMPREHENSIVE warranty?!

Aylesbury_Duck

As you've discovered, warranties on used cars are often next to useless, because of the amount of exclusions.

I thought you had 30 days to reject, not three months? Maybe I'm wrong.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it's never advisable to buy a car without seeing and driving it, no matter how inconvenient that might be.  As you're discovering, it just adds to the hassle if things go wrong.  If you are able to reject it, you are perhaps going to have to get it back to them at your own cost, anyway.

Wonka_2

DarloTerrier said:

Hi
Purchased a car through a finance company on 13th February. Had to use their recommended garage. in a different town to me ( so I didn't couldn't realistically view it ). However the car was advertised "12 month MOT with no advisories, £0 tax, full service history, comprehensive warranty" - I still have evidence of this. So I trusted that it would be in good condition and bought it based on those statements.
On delivery the car had an obvious suspension problem. The warranty company said suspension wasn't covered, so the dealer advised to take it back to their garage to look at - not possible due to distance. We agreed that I would use my usual garage and he would reimburse me, which after a bit of chasing he did - fair enough.
The car now has a major timing belt problem ( I'm no car expert ) which has had a knock on effect for other parts of the engine. In total this is going to cost me over £1000. The warranty company again are saying its not covered. The warranty runs out on 13th May ( 3 months since car purchase ). Am I within my rights to refuse the car due to the problems, as I'm within the first 3 months of purchase? Should I contact the finance company to report to them first, or the dealer where I got it from?

I should add that the car came with 12 months MOT WITH advisories, the tax was £30 and not zero, it did have some service history but nothing since 2021, and what's the definition of a COMPREHENSIVE warranty?!

So presumably this is a sub-prime lender where you've ended up with an over-priced piece of **** from the bottom of the pile.

How old ? What sort of price are we talking here ? 

Assuming the transaction was carried our at a distance (i.e. you didn't visit the dealer/test drive the car) then you'd have had rejection rights within 14 days whereas now you're going to have to engage with the dealer - whether you consider it possible or not due to the distance

And on the bottom (bold) part - this could easily have been checked before accepting the car - tax rates and MOT results are visible online with a registration number - and many cars are on 2yr service intervals now so, depending on make/model, that may not be the issue you're making it out to be 

sevenhills

At £1,000 I assume that the timing belt snapped? It cost me around £300 to replace my timing belt a few years ago.
Had the belt past it's recommended replace by mileage? 

Manxman_in_exile

DarloTerrier said:

...However the car was advertised "12 month MOT with no advisories, £0 tax, full service history, comprehensive warranty" - I still have evidence of this. So I trusted that it would be in good condition and bought it based on those statements...

I'm sorry to say this but I'm afraid that it does not logically follow that a car will be in "good condition" simply from the statement "12 month MOT with no advisories, £0 tax, full service history, comprehensive warranty".

It simply means what it says and it doesn't actually mention the condition of the car at all.

You have no specific rght to reject a car in the first 3 months, but you might still have general grounds for rejecting it under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. But you'll need to rely on others to explain to you how the legislation works in respect of cars as I don't really understand that aspect of it

You do have a specific right to reject a faulty purchase within 30 days and get a refund, but sounds as if you didn't know that.

If the car was advertised with full service history but didn't have one, that might have been grounds to reject it on its own.  (ie didn't conform to contract.  Ditto misleading statement about tax)

I suspect the term "comprehensive warranty" is meaningless.  You should have asked the seller what it meant before buying it.

DarloTerrier

sevenhills said:

At £1,000 I assume that the timing belt snapped? It cost me around £300 to replace my timing belt a few years ago.
Had the belt past it's recommended replace by mileage? 

Yeah, apparently its a "wet belt" on these type of Ford Focuses which has shred and bits of it contaminated the oil pump. 

DarloTerrier

Wonka_2 said:

DarloTerrier said:

Hi
Purchased a car through a finance company on 13th February. Had to use their recommended garage. in a different town to me ( so I didn't couldn't realistically view it ). However the car was advertised "12 month MOT with no advisories, £0 tax, full service history, comprehensive warranty" - I still have evidence of this. So I trusted that it would be in good condition and bought it based on those statements.
On delivery the car had an obvious suspension problem. The warranty company said suspension wasn't covered, so the dealer advised to take it back to their garage to look at - not possible due to distance. We agreed that I would use my usual garage and he would reimburse me, which after a bit of chasing he did - fair enough.
The car now has a major timing belt problem ( I'm no car expert ) which has had a knock on effect for other parts of the engine. In total this is going to cost me over £1000. The warranty company again are saying its not covered. The warranty runs out on 13th May ( 3 months since car purchase ). Am I within my rights to refuse the car due to the problems, as I'm within the first 3 months of purchase? Should I contact the finance company to report to them first, or the dealer where I got it from?

I should add that the car came with 12 months MOT WITH advisories, the tax was £30 and not zero, it did have some service history but nothing since 2021, and what's the definition of a COMPREHENSIVE warranty?!

So presumably this is a sub-prime lender where you've ended up with an over-priced piece of **** from the bottom of the pile.

How old ? What sort of price are we talking here ? 

Assuming the transaction was carried our at a distance (i.e. you didn't visit the dealer/test drive the car) then you'd have had rejection rights within 14 days whereas now you're going to have to engage with the dealer - whether you consider it possible or not due to the distance

And on the bottom (bold) part - this could easily have been checked before accepting the car - tax rates and MOT results are visible online with a registration number - and many cars are on 2yr service intervals now so, depending on make/model, that may not be the issue you're making it out to be 

Wonka_2 said:

DarloTerrier said:

Hi
Purchased a car through a finance company on 13th February. Had to use their recommended garage. in a different town to me ( so I didn't couldn't realistically view it ). However the car was advertised "12 month MOT with no advisories, £0 tax, full service history, comprehensive warranty" - I still have evidence of this. So I trusted that it would be in good condition and bought it based on those statements.
On delivery the car had an obvious suspension problem. The warranty company said suspension wasn't covered, so the dealer advised to take it back to their garage to look at - not possible due to distance. We agreed that I would use my usual garage and he would reimburse me, which after a bit of chasing he did - fair enough.
The car now has a major timing belt problem ( I'm no car expert ) which has had a knock on effect for other parts of the engine. In total this is going to cost me over £1000. The warranty company again are saying its not covered. The warranty runs out on 13th May ( 3 months since car purchase ). Am I within my rights to refuse the car due to the problems, as I'm within the first 3 months of purchase? Should I contact the finance company to report to them first, or the dealer where I got it from?

I should add that the car came with 12 months MOT WITH advisories, the tax was £30 and not zero, it did have some service history but nothing since 2021, and what's the definition of a COMPREHENSIVE warranty?!

So presumably this is a sub-prime lender where you've ended up with an over-priced piece of **** from the bottom of the pile.

How old ? What sort of price are we talking here ? 

Assuming the transaction was carried our at a distance (i.e. you didn't visit the dealer/test drive the car) then you'd have had rejection rights within 14 days whereas now you're going to have to engage with the dealer - whether you consider it possible or not due to the distance

And on the bottom (bold) part - this could easily have been checked before accepting the car - tax rates and MOT results are visible online with a registration number - and many cars are on 2yr service intervals now so, depending on make/model, that may not be the issue you're making it out to be 

Its a 2013 Ford Focus. The dealer was advertising it on their website while it didnt have an MOT, but MOT'd it on the day of sale to me, but it had advisories on that MOT. I didn't have a chance to question it. They advertised it as "comes with 12 months MOT with no advisories" 
Sale price was just under £6k, but its nearer £8.5k on finance.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

OP what usually happens is if there is a problem with the goods the trader has one chance to repair (or replace) and then you can reject the goods if there is still a problem.

The difficulty here is the trader didn't repair the goods, you did and they gave a refund to cover it which could be viewed as a price reduction. 

I would start by briefly bullet pointing the problems with the car and reasons the car does match the description and advise the trader you wish to exercise your final right to reject because one repair has already been carried out and the car still doesn't confirm. 

The trader may simply agree and refund, they may agree but refund minus what they've already refunded you for the repair, they may refuse.

If the finance is linked to the car then you should have Section 75 cover and it's worth taking to them if the trader isn't assisting you. 

Within the first 6 months any issues are taken unless demonstrated otherwise so you ideally want to get this point of rejecting the car across before the 6 months has past. 

Typically within the first 6 months a full refund is due but that doesn't apply to motor vehicles so a deduction for use is permitted.

In short reject with dealer, if no joy reject with finance under S75, any complications post back for more advice  

Aylesbury_Duck

DarloTerrier said:

Wonka_2 said:

DarloTerrier said:

Hi
Purchased a car through a finance company on 13th February. Had to use their recommended garage. in a different town to me ( so I didn't couldn't realistically view it ). However the car was advertised "12 month MOT with no advisories, £0 tax, full service history, comprehensive warranty" - I still have evidence of this. So I trusted that it would be in good condition and bought it based on those statements.
On delivery the car had an obvious suspension problem. The warranty company said suspension wasn't covered, so the dealer advised to take it back to their garage to look at - not possible due to distance. We agreed that I would use my usual garage and he would reimburse me, which after a bit of chasing he did - fair enough.
The car now has a major timing belt problem ( I'm no car expert ) which has had a knock on effect for other parts of the engine. In total this is going to cost me over £1000. The warranty company again are saying its not covered. The warranty runs out on 13th May ( 3 months since car purchase ). Am I within my rights to refuse the car due to the problems, as I'm within the first 3 months of purchase? Should I contact the finance company to report to them first, or the dealer where I got it from?

I should add that the car came with 12 months MOT WITH advisories, the tax was £30 and not zero, it did have some service history but nothing since 2021, and what's the definition of a COMPREHENSIVE warranty?!

So presumably this is a sub-prime lender where you've ended up with an over-priced piece of **** from the bottom of the pile.

How old ? What sort of price are we talking here ? 

Assuming the transaction was carried our at a distance (i.e. you didn't visit the dealer/test drive the car) then you'd have had rejection rights within 14 days whereas now you're going to have to engage with the dealer - whether you consider it possible or not due to the distance

And on the bottom (bold) part - this could easily have been checked before accepting the car - tax rates and MOT results are visible online with a registration number - and many cars are on 2yr service intervals now so, depending on make/model, that may not be the issue you're making it out to be 

Wonka_2 said:

DarloTerrier said:

Hi
Purchased a car through a finance company on 13th February. Had to use their recommended garage. in a different town to me ( so I didn't couldn't realistically view it ). However the car was advertised "12 month MOT with no advisories, £0 tax, full service history, comprehensive warranty" - I still have evidence of this. So I trusted that it would be in good condition and bought it based on those statements.
On delivery the car had an obvious suspension problem. The warranty company said suspension wasn't covered, so the dealer advised to take it back to their garage to look at - not possible due to distance. We agreed that I would use my usual garage and he would reimburse me, which after a bit of chasing he did - fair enough.
The car now has a major timing belt problem ( I'm no car expert ) which has had a knock on effect for other parts of the engine. In total this is going to cost me over £1000. The warranty company again are saying its not covered. The warranty runs out on 13th May ( 3 months since car purchase ). Am I within my rights to refuse the car due to the problems, as I'm within the first 3 months of purchase? Should I contact the finance company to report to them first, or the dealer where I got it from?

I should add that the car came with 12 months MOT WITH advisories, the tax was £30 and not zero, it did have some service history but nothing since 2021, and what's the definition of a COMPREHENSIVE warranty?!

So presumably this is a sub-prime lender where you've ended up with an over-priced piece of **** from the bottom of the pile.

How old ? What sort of price are we talking here ? 

Assuming the transaction was carried our at a distance (i.e. you didn't visit the dealer/test drive the car) then you'd have had rejection rights within 14 days whereas now you're going to have to engage with the dealer - whether you consider it possible or not due to the distance

And on the bottom (bold) part - this could easily have been checked before accepting the car - tax rates and MOT results are visible online with a registration number - and many cars are on 2yr service intervals now so, depending on make/model, that may not be the issue you're making it out to be 

Its a 2013 Ford Focus. The dealer was advertising it on their website while it didnt have an MOT, but MOT'd it on the day of sale to me, but it had advisories on that MOT. I didn't have a chance to question it. They advertised it as "comes with 12 months MOT with no advisories" 
Sale price was just under £6k, but its nearer £8.5k on finance.

£6k for a ten year old Ford Focus?  Blimey.  Is it a special model or something that made it such a bargain that it was worth snapping up without seeing or driving it?

It's a shame you didn't reject it immediately, on the basis that it didn't conform to the description, ie. That it had advisories when the advert said it didn't.  What are the advisories?

tightauldgit

Aylesbury_Duck said:

DarloTerrier said:

Wonka_2 said:

DarloTerrier said:

Hi
Purchased a car through a finance company on 13th February. Had to use their recommended garage. in a different town to me ( so I didn't couldn't realistically view it ). However the car was advertised "12 month MOT with no advisories, £0 tax, full service history, comprehensive warranty" - I still have evidence of this. So I trusted that it would be in good condition and bought it based on those statements.
On delivery the car had an obvious suspension problem. The warranty company said suspension wasn't covered, so the dealer advised to take it back to their garage to look at - not possible due to distance. We agreed that I would use my usual garage and he would reimburse me, which after a bit of chasing he did - fair enough.
The car now has a major timing belt problem ( I'm no car expert ) which has had a knock on effect for other parts of the engine. In total this is going to cost me over £1000. The warranty company again are saying its not covered. The warranty runs out on 13th May ( 3 months since car purchase ). Am I within my rights to refuse the car due to the problems, as I'm within the first 3 months of purchase? Should I contact the finance company to report to them first, or the dealer where I got it from?

I should add that the car came with 12 months MOT WITH advisories, the tax was £30 and not zero, it did have some service history but nothing since 2021, and what's the definition of a COMPREHENSIVE warranty?!

So presumably this is a sub-prime lender where you've ended up with an over-priced piece of **** from the bottom of the pile.

How old ? What sort of price are we talking here ? 

Assuming the transaction was carried our at a distance (i.e. you didn't visit the dealer/test drive the car) then you'd have had rejection rights within 14 days whereas now you're going to have to engage with the dealer - whether you consider it possible or not due to the distance

And on the bottom (bold) part - this could easily have been checked before accepting the car - tax rates and MOT results are visible online with a registration number - and many cars are on 2yr service intervals now so, depending on make/model, that may not be the issue you're making it out to be 

Wonka_2 said:

DarloTerrier said:

Hi
Purchased a car through a finance company on 13th February. Had to use their recommended garage. in a different town to me ( so I didn't couldn't realistically view it ). However the car was advertised "12 month MOT with no advisories, £0 tax, full service history, comprehensive warranty" - I still have evidence of this. So I trusted that it would be in good condition and bought it based on those statements.
On delivery the car had an obvious suspension problem. The warranty company said suspension wasn't covered, so the dealer advised to take it back to their garage to look at - not possible due to distance. We agreed that I would use my usual garage and he would reimburse me, which after a bit of chasing he did - fair enough.
The car now has a major timing belt problem ( I'm no car expert ) which has had a knock on effect for other parts of the engine. In total this is going to cost me over £1000. The warranty company again are saying its not covered. The warranty runs out on 13th May ( 3 months since car purchase ). Am I within my rights to refuse the car due to the problems, as I'm within the first 3 months of purchase? Should I contact the finance company to report to them first, or the dealer where I got it from?

I should add that the car came with 12 months MOT WITH advisories, the tax was £30 and not zero, it did have some service history but nothing since 2021, and what's the definition of a COMPREHENSIVE warranty?!

So presumably this is a sub-prime lender where you've ended up with an over-priced piece of **** from the bottom of the pile.

How old ? What sort of price are we talking here ? 

Assuming the transaction was carried our at a distance (i.e. you didn't visit the dealer/test drive the car) then you'd have had rejection rights within 14 days whereas now you're going to have to engage with the dealer - whether you consider it possible or not due to the distance

And on the bottom (bold) part - this could easily have been checked before accepting the car - tax rates and MOT results are visible online with a registration number - and many cars are on 2yr service intervals now so, depending on make/model, that may not be the issue you're making it out to be 

Its a 2013 Ford Focus. The dealer was advertising it on their website while it didnt have an MOT, but MOT'd it on the day of sale to me, but it had advisories on that MOT. I didn't have a chance to question it. They advertised it as "comes with 12 months MOT with no advisories" 
Sale price was just under £6k, but its nearer £8.5k on finance.

£6k for a ten year old Ford Focus?  Blimey.  Is it a special model or something that made it such a bargain that it was worth snapping up without seeing or driving it?

It's a shame you didn't reject it immediately, on the basis that it didn't conform to the description, ie. That it had advisories when the advert said it didn't.  What are the advisories?

My knowledge on this is a bit sketchy but is there a time limit on rejecting something that isn't as described? It does seem clear that the car wasn't as described so surely you can return it? On the other hand it does seem a little sketchy that you can exercise that right when something else goes wrong with the car that's unconnected? Could they deduct the cost of repairing any new fault as the car being returned in a poor condition?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

tightauldgit said:

My knowledge on this is a bit sketchy but is there a time limit on rejecting something that isn't as described? It does seem clear that the car wasn't as described so surely you can return it? On the other hand it does seem a little sketchy that you can exercise that right when something else goes wrong with the car that's unconnected? Could they deduct the cost of repairing any new fault as the car being returned in a poor condition?

There's no time imposed but the general principle is you pay for the use you've had by way of a reduction from the refund however the regs have afforded a 6 month period where a full refund is due (excluding motor vehicles).

So if you buy a blue widget but get sent a green one you could keep it and use it for for 29 days and then use the short term right to reject for a full refund. You could potentially keep it and use it for 5 months and 29 days but with the right to replace/repair coming first you might not end up with a refund. 

It is of course best to report any problems and exercise your rights asap.

Regarding the cost of repair, the trader should bear the cost of repair/replace so if your new TV breaks after 2 months, the company spend £200 fixing it and then it breaks again after another 2 months and you reject for a refund the company can't deduct the £200 they spent fixing it the first time, it must be a full refund within the 6 months. If the TV broke for a second time after the 6 months then the reduction in the refund would be for use rather than considering any previous repair costs. 

With the car it would go back to the dealer and, simplistically speaking, that repair either adds value to the car or the car was over priced by the cost of repair. Same with the TV really, the consumer has paid an amount for something described as xyz and those repair costs simply give the consumer what they originally paid for rather than benefitting them. 

The issue here is whether the trader would argue the refund was a price reduction but without rejecting the car the OP won't know what stance the trader wishes to take