Flogas/LPGsave nightmare

In Feb 2023 we received letter from Flogas saying contract expires March 17 2023. It includes threats of high charges if not renewed by then, including 68 pence per litre (ppl) and a £75 charge for each delivery.

March 17. I phoned Flogas and renewed. I also asked to change name on the account to myself. It had been in my son's name. The woman I spoke to asked to speak to my son to authorise the change. I gave him the phone and she asked questions and seemed to accept what he said. The delivery address, phone number,  etc, would remain unchanged.

March 27,  which is within the 14 days allowed to cancel, I phoned Flogas to cancel the renewal because LPGsave had offered a better deal at 54 ppl.

April 7. email from LPGsafe headed 'Completed: Your Home Bulk Tank LPG - Renewal' and saying  'All parties have signed the envelope Your Home Bulk Tank LPG' . I reasonably assumed that all parties included Flogas and that the deal had been done.

April 11. Though I had selected on the Flogas form not to use auto top up but only deliver when I requested they made a delivery. I did not request and was not necessary. I was not present at the time of delivery and the driver did not leave a delivery ticket, which, if no one is around, they usually put through the letter box.

April 11. The same day as the delivery, I received an invoice , number 9089135, by email from Flogas as follows: 
______________________________
Propane     813 litres @ 64p   =  £520.32
Standing charge                             £8.22
Market Volatility Surcharge          £75.00
                                             ___________
Goods total                                £603.54
VAT                                              £30.18
Total due                                    £633.72
_____________________________

They were charging 64ppl not 54 and had added the £75 charge.

They also increased the amount of propane they said had been delivered. Before the delivery the reading on the tank was definitely not below 20%. I had been watching it carefully, checking each day. After the delivery it was 85%
The difference, between 20% and 85%, is 65%
The tank capacity is 1140 litres and 65% x 1140  = 741, not the 813 they claimed. 
So how did the extra 72 litres get into the tank to make it up to 813? Is this why the driver didn't leave a delivery ticket?

April 13. I was checking the email every day and  on April 13, after the Flogas delivery, I noticed a new email from LPGsave in the inbox which was dated April 6 and said that the renewal had been voided because the name on the account had not been changed to mine. I would certainly have seen the email if it had been there before April 13. Perhaps their IT experts can set the date on an email like this.

If the name change on the Flogas account had been voided before the time of delivery on April 11 why, on the same day, did they send the invoice to me and not to my son.

April 20. Another email from LPGsave saying 'Completed: Your Home Bulk Tank LPG - Renewal' though they had been given no more information that would affect the change of name.

So, Flogas had made a delivery, which we did not request, after the account with them had been cancelled and the new account through LPGsave had, not yet started and they charged more per litre than the LPGsave agreement said. There was no need for them to deliver then. Flogas have their remote monitoring and the tank can go down to 5% without any problem. 

I feel I have been robbed by some sort of collusion between Flogas and LPGsave. Another poster on this forum suggests that LPGsave may be part of Flogas or very closely connected. It certainly seems plausible. They seem to be tricky to deal with.

The invoice contains payment information but is it genuine? Maybe it is the work of a scammer who has got into their system. If I pay it they may say they haven't received it and I will have to pay again.

Does anyone else have a similar experience with Flogas or LPGsave?

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Comments

  • tony343
    tony343 Posts: 10 Forumite
    First Post
    This has cost about 85 ppl overall
  • rhedyn
    rhedyn Posts: 62 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post
    Without going into detail, I will say that my experience with Flogas has been that if you have your solicitor email them, their position changes instantly and dramatically.
  • tony343
    tony343 Posts: 10 Forumite
    First Post
    Thanks for the suggestion, but I cannot afford a solicitor. Perhaps I should write to a newspaper.
  • tony343
    tony343 Posts: 10 Forumite
    First Post

    This is a screenshot of my usage chart from the Flogas website.



    It shows that the difference between before and after the delivery is 65%. Since the tank capacity is 1140 litres it means that about 741 litres was actually delivered, not the 813 that they have charged me for.
    The driver did not leave a delivery note, which would have stated the amount delivered as measured by the meter on the tanker, so if I don't have this information they can charge for the delivery whatever they like .
    There is certainly something very fishy going on. It seems to be criminal, a form of theft.
    Perhaps it happens quite often, so if you are not given a delivery note go to the website and check the usage chart.
  • lohr500
    lohr500 Posts: 945 Forumite
    First Post Name Dropper First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Write to them and ask for written proof of the delivery volume.

    You can't rely on an in-tank sensor to give an accurate indication of the change in volume.
    It is there to give a rough guide of the tank level. Not a precise measure.
    How do you know the sensor is calibrated accurately to account for the shape of the tank and effect of temperature?
    Have you allowed for the 10% to 15% free space above the LPG?

    I think you are conflating your dispute over the change in contract with a suggestion that you have been short changed on the delivery volume.  
  • tony343
    tony343 Posts: 10 Forumite
    First Post

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  • tony343
    tony343 Posts: 10 Forumite
    First Post
    edited 8 August 2023 at 5:43PM
    This is the invoice that says they delivered 813 litres:



    This is a screenshot from their website which shows how much was actually delivered. 969 - 228 = 741 litres


  • lohr500
    lohr500 Posts: 945 Forumite
    First Post Name Dropper First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Isn't the screenshot just showing estimates based on the in-tank sensor which as per the previous comments will only be an approximation. 

    s per my previous post, ask them for proof of delivery.

    The actual delivery is stated as 813 litres. The in tank sensor estimated 741 litres.That's less than a 10% difference.
    The in tank sensor is probably not that accurate and is simply there to give you an approximate level in your tank.



  • tony343
    tony343 Posts: 10 Forumite
    First Post
    There is no reason to think that the meter is inaccurate. It was changed not long ago because the previous dial had become misted and unreadable. They must use lots of these meters and surely they would have be tested for accuracy and designed to allow for the shape of the tank.
    Why didn't Flogas leave a delivery note? It must be habitual for drivers to do so. Perhaps he didn't want us to know how many litres he had put into the tank.
    Why do they not publish their prices, as petrol stations do?
    Why do we have to take a two year contract?
  • QrizB
    QrizB Posts: 13,822 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    tony343 said:
    There is no reason to think that the meter is inaccurate.
    On the other hand, there's no reason to believe that it's accurate.
    When was the meter on your tank certified? Whe was it last recalibrated? Do you have a calibration certificate from a UKAS-authorised agent that's traceable to the national standards?
    An uncalibrated, uncertified meter is solely an indicator. It cannot be relied on for accurate measurement.

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