rejecting Peugeot boxer

gavino76

1. purchased on oct 18th 2022 delivered oct 25th

2. LTD

3. 1st registration date 17-08-19 / mileage upon my purchase 42470

4. price paid £16495 +vat total: £19794 - £1200 px

5. cant remember if it was approved used. the ad has been removed. i have recently been hacked and lost all email. i believe there is a 12 month warranty.

6. the original warranty ended 16.08.22

7. was purchased prior to trip abroad, for convenience, i am A busy tradesman and do not have to time to visit various dealers. i thought i could have trust in the Peugeot name.

8. totally remote purchase. lots of filtering through various vehicles and eventually trusted in the 'big name' of Peugeot 

9. Basingstoke is a 3 hour drive from me in chelmsford.

10. having reviewed the photos sent from my friend who received the van, it is difficult to make out the dent and scratch due to the angle, the light, and the colour of the van. now i know it is there, i can see it back in the photos.

  the photos, taken on the day of delivery also show that there is no rust at all on all 4 wheels.

11. van was delivered 25th oct, returned home 29th oct

12. the damage to the cill underneath the side loading door is not clearly apparent unless you get on your knees and look. its clearly old damage as there is rust and you can see the age.

13. over the 6 months since purchase a warning light has come on, i discovered the air con doesn't work- or maybe it does just need regassing, i haven't had to use it up until now when the weather is warming up. either way, why wasn't it sold fully gassed? another small but important detail that really quite annoying. both headlights went out, all the problems i mentioned previously and now recently the cruise control sometimes just doesn't work.

14. Im very disappointed and worried to find i have no Consumer rights as it was a business purchase.

15. i mentioned the dent immediately upon discovery. i have mentioned steering pulling. the lights going out on a motorway at 530am. the plastic rattling sound. other problems were not yet discovered or hadn't happened yet and as it was, i was booked into a Peugeot garage to be examined.

my local Peugeot could not accommodate me as their ramp was not big enough. my next nearest, the same problem. 3rd choice Peugeot accepted me, charged me a £144 diagnostic fee. it took months to get seen as in between work, having covid, and having my appointments cancelled and rearranged twice i think.

my intention was to get a report, and send it over. after having been to the garage, i had forgotten to list some of the defects i was concerned with.

just  a reminder, the van was bought at peugeot basingstoke, and was taken to a Peugeot garage near me.

16. the van pulls to the left. in the tyre alignment centre, they found the tracking to be 100%. i left. i returned again as the van is pulling. i asked to have the tyres criss crossed to try to eliminate the problem. the manager came out and told me that he won't, he asked if it is occasional, i said yes, and he said he is sure that the problem is the steering adjustment sensor. he said sometimes they just don't reset the steering wheel position after alignment. they are unable to access Peugeot software to correct the problem. 

i can be driving up hill, on a bend going right, with camber to the right, and the wheel will pull left if i let go. im definitely not mad. 5 minutes after being in the van my right shoulder and neck are aching,

17. coolant level has been checked and found to be ok. the coolant issue warning message is cause by the clutch pedal switch fault, i have no idea im not a mechanic. report just says carried out checks and found clutch pedal switch to be faulty . ref peugeot documentation (i.e common fault recorded many times)it is not the clutch, its the clutch pedal switch causing warning message. £209.17

18. problem: radio cutting out and unable to adjust volume on steering wheel. Peugeot notes: no updates available to radio, radio unit and volume control on steering wheel faulty, requires new. £1715.36 after paying nearly £20,000, i expect a decent working radio.

19. the air con is not ice cold.

20. the brakes squealing may well have been reported, i have since changed my phone and my WhatsApp conversation with the dealer is on the old handset which i still have.

21. if you had paid nearly 20k for a van and both headlights went out on a dark morning on a motorway would you be slightly miffed? i changed one bulb which has since gone out and again. wear and tear?

22. in the photos on the day of delivery, the wheels look fine, and clean, and silver. slowly but surely i have realised that they have rusted very badly and are flaking also. I had to look back at the delivery photos to make sure it was not present and it was not. They've been cleaned and polished deliberately to hide it. this is not rust that has happened in 6 months. this is on the wheels

23.a common problem, as discussed on peugeot forums online is the plastic rattling sound. usually found to be a loose fuel pipe clip. Peugeot basildon have secured this for me yet the sound remains. nothing like driving for an hour or 2, daily, while the plastic rattle slowly eats your patience away. if i could find it, i would fix it. as for sticking duct tape to my dashboard, this is (not  meant to be!!) an old banger. its a £20000 van. I shouldnt have to put up with it.

24. the £140 diagnostic fee was for a few of the issues i had mentioned here, like i said i had actually forgotten to list all of them for the garage, the radio, clutch switch pedal, headlights, steering, and rattle. were looked at. since then the cruise control haas become faulty, and works sometimes, sometimes it doesn't.

25. i think i have nearly done 10k miles in the van

thank you so much for your time.

Wonka_2

Haven't time to go through all of those 1 by 1 but a couple jumped out

You're disappointed that you have no consumer rights when you clearly bought as a business 

Overall your expectations seem very high - especially placing Peugeot on a pedestal as a 'big name' worthy of trust

Things go wrong with cars/vans - even new ones are guaranteed to be trouble free (wheels rust, bulbs fail etc) but buying a new one from a local dealer would have given you more peace of mind and may have got you a better response from the dealer.

That said

no - you're not going to be able to reject it under consumer rights after 6 months - and it's even ore unlikely under any B2B contract

If I were you I've be checking the warranty situation - if you think it had one for 12m from purchase it'd be worth clarifying (and what is covered by it)

Most decent independent tyre places should be able to sort the tracking and help with the steering issue
A local audio place should be able to fix the audio issue without having to replace the unit 
Some rust treatment should sort the wheels

Mildly_Miffed

It's also worth remembering that your contract is with Snows Motor Group Ltd, who operate the Peugeot franchise in Basingstoke. You bought the van from them.

Your contract is not with Toomey Motor Group Ltd, who operate the Basildon Peugeot franchise - nor is it with Peugeot Motor Company PLC, the UK importer and franchisee.

You need to clarify who provides the used vehicle warranty that Snows provided with the van.

Grumpy_chap

The OP is providing some more information, but not yet stepping back from the emotion they feel to assess things wholly rationally and separating the items in to what may be resolvable or what may not be.

One thing I'd be doing is to get a price for the van from WBAC / Motorway etc.  That may be a solution, and at least sets a maximum loss that the OP might be exposed to here.  

We now know the OP's Ltd company purchased the van in October for £16.5k + VAT = £20k.
Is the Ltd Co VAT registered?  Was input VAT eligible to be reclaimed?

Van was 3 yo and 40k miles when purchased.  Expectations must be set against a van of this age and mileage, not against a brand new van.

The OP has covered about 10k miles in the 6-months' of ownership.

Original Peugeot warranty had expired but there was likely a 12- month warranty on the van from purchase. 
The OP should locate this, or ask the original supplying Dealer to provide a confirmation.  Even if e-mails were lost, is there no hard-copy paperwork that will confirm?
The warranty is the first place to pursue any repairs that are required.
Is that warranty Peugeot-backed (via any franchise), or linked to the supplying Dealer, or a simple insurance-backed product?

The OP has no consumer rights as it was a business purchase.
References to the remote purchase are irrelevant as that is only significant for consumer purchase.
The OP's Ltd Co. has whatever rights are conferred under the terms of sale (B2B).  This will be difficult to enforce if the OP lost any e-mail / paperwork information.  The supplying Dealer may supply a duplicate copy of the contract, or at least their standard T's&C's.  These are the starting point for any discussions with regard to any remedy.

I would not bother trying to pursue anything about the dent and scratch on the side loading door.  The OP has acknowledged that the van was "immaculate" on delivery.  The OP's friend will, therefore, have accepted the van and signed for as "undamaged".  The fact the van was damaged a few days later does not mean that anyone will accept the damage was there at delivery.

IF there was a route for returning the van, any value returned by the supplying Dealer would take into account the diminishment by virtue of the 10k miles, 6 months ownership and damage caused to the van side loading door.  A standard trade sale may yield just as much return.

gavino76 said:

13. over the 6 months since purchase a warning light has come on, 

What warning light?
Has this now been resolved?

gavino76 said:

i discovered the air con doesn't work- or maybe it does just need regassing, i haven't had to use it up until now when the weather is warming up. either way, why wasn't it sold fully gassed? 

The air con may need regassing - this is a maintenance activity and is required from time to time. 
Regassing is not a scheduled maintenance task, but just one to so as and when required. 
A vehicle air con would not be routinely regassed prior to second-hand sale.
The air con was likely working when the van was supplied, can't be proven otherwise after this time.  It is possible the seals dried out over the winter allowing the gas to vent.
Or there may be damage to the compressor.
Or there may be damage to the system anywhere - can happen from a stone thrown up from the road (which could have been in the 10k miles the OP covered or before).
Easiest thing is to either accept no air-con, or pay an independent "we come to you" regas company and then take it from there.
I don't see this as a fault in the vehicle as supplied, nor would I expect it to be covered by the used vehicle warranty.

gavino76 said:

both headlights went out,
the lights going out on a motorway at 530am. 
i changed one bulb which has since gone out and again. wear and tear?

Bulbs fail from time to time.  Very unlikely a cause for rejection or warranty item.
New bulbs can also fail prematurely - especially modern bulbs will be susceptible to contamination if touched which can weaken the glass.
One headlamp bulb failing can cause a momentary current spike and the second to fail at the same time.  It is also possible that they did not both fail at the same time - had you carried out your vehicle checks at the start of shift?
Although very annoying to have both bulbs out on a motorway at 05:30, you would have still had side lights and DRLs (if fitted) which should have been sufficient to at least allow you to progress to a place of safety.

gavino76 said:

now recently the cruise control sometimes just doesn't work.
the cruise control haas become faulty, and works sometimes, sometimes it doesn't.

If this is a new issue that has arisen, the best approach is to report to the supplying Dealer for the matter to be resolved under the warranty.

gavino76 said:

i have mentioned steering pulling. 
the van pulls to the left. in the tyre alignment centre, they found the tracking to be 100%. i left. i returned again as the van is pulling. i asked to have the tyres criss crossed to try to eliminate the problem. the manager came out and told me that he won't, he asked if it is occasional, i said yes, and he said he is sure that the problem is the steering adjustment sensor. he said sometimes they just don't reset the steering wheel position after alignment. they are unable to access Peugeot software to correct the problem. 

i can be driving up hill, on a bend going right, with camber to the right, and the wheel will pull left if i let go. im definitely not mad. 5 minutes after being in the van my right shoulder and neck are aching

So, you ruled out the alignment and you also ruled out the tyres.
It does sound like the steering wheel is simply not "straight" when straight ahead.
I think most vehicles I have ever owned are rather like that to varying degree.
You could report it for investigation under the warranty.

gavino76 said:

the plastic rattling sound. 
a common problem, as discussed on peugeot forums online is the plastic rattling sound. usually found to be a loose fuel pipe clip. Peugeot basildon have secured this for me yet the sound remains. nothing like driving for an hour or 2, daily, while the plastic rattle slowly eats your patience away. if i could find it, i would fix it. as for sticking duct tape to my dashboard, this is (not  meant to be!!) an old banger. its a £20000 van. I shouldnt have to put up with it.
and rattle. were looked at. 

Squeeks and rattles are to be expected on a used van.
You have even found it is a common problem.
Very unlikely to be a reason to reject or to be fixed under warranty

gavino76 said:

17. coolant level has been checked and found to be ok. the coolant issue warning message is cause by the clutch pedal switch fault, i have no idea im not a mechanic. report just says carried out checks and found clutch pedal switch to be faulty . ref peugeot documentation (i.e common fault recorded many times)it is not the clutch, its the clutch pedal switch causing warning message. £209.17

This is worth reporting for investigation under the warranty.
If that does not cover it, pay the £200 to get it fixed.

gavino76 said:

18. problem: radio cutting out and unable to adjust volume on steering wheel. Peugeot notes: no updates available to radio, radio unit and volume control on steering wheel faulty, requires new. £1715.36 after paying nearly £20,000, i expect a decent working radio.

I very much doubt any after-market warranty (not even an Approved Used warranty) would cover the radio.
It may have been covered under the original vehicle warranty, but that expired a few months before you purchased the van.
It may have been evident at test drive, but you chose to buy the van without a test drive and not even to be present when the van was delivered.
Is it just the steering wheel volume control? - I could live without that?
If you do need a complete new radio, either an after-market unit from Halfords or similar, or a second-hand unit recovered from a scrapped vehicle would be much cheaper than the nearly £2k quoted for a new one from Peugeot.  I suspect the radio unit is also used in cars so there'll be a good supply of scrap-vehicle modules available.


Overall, I certainly can't see that there are ground for the vehicle to be rejected.
Even if this was not a B2B transaction and consumer rights applied, that does not mean a vehicle can simply be rejected for any reason - it has to be a substantial matter.

If you were to reject the vehicle, then the value will be reduced to reflect the 6 months 10k miles of benefit you have gained and also the damage to the side loading door which it appears happened after the vehicle was delivered and before your returned from your overseas trip.

Why did you not claim for the damage from the vehicle insurance that you had in place in those first few days?

Given you just dislike this van, the most pragmatic route might be to sell it on via WBAC or similar.

Yellowsub2000

You can only reject for full refund within 30 days

if longer you won’t get all your money back

jimjames

Yellowsub2000 said:

You can only reject for full refund within 30 days

if longer you won’t get all your money back

Not if it's a business purchase, you're missing out that key fact that only consumer deals are covered.