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Claiming PIP with a good job
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PIP is based on how your conditions affect you the majority of the time over a 12 month period. So at least 50% of the time. If you can complete an acitivity for 3-4 days per week, each week then you will not score any points for that activity.This link may help, don't know if it's been added as haven't looked back through the thread to check. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities
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This template also might help https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Documents/Advice%20(public)/pip-diary.pdf I used it for two weeks when I sent in my appeal, a page a day.Life throws you curve balls and kicks you in the teeth… learning to live with weird neurological complications and spine injury and hating fall.2
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poppy12345 said:PIP is based on how your conditions affect you the majority of the time over a 12 month period. So at least 50% of the time. If you can complete an acitivity for 3-4 days per week, each week then you will not score any points for that activity.This link may help, don't know if it's been added as haven't looked back through the thread to check. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities
Yes, but only if they can do it to an acceptable standard without unacceptable aftereffects.
To elaborate for the OP, "can" means "can without impacting your ability to do the other activities, and can do it as often as you need to". Reliably is the most important concept here, especially with fluctuating conditions. Do not make the mistake of interpreting 'can do it' literally - if doing an activity depletes your spoons and means you can't do other daily activities, that is not what's meant by 'can do it'.
Nondisabled people don't have to budget their energy or brainpower to be able to do these activities, that is the huge difference between us managing to do it with a struggle, and them simply doing it as the most basic part of their day.
Further info: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#reliability-1
Rather more in-depth if you wish: https://pipinfo.net/issues/reliably3 -
Spoonie_Turtle said:poppy12345 said:PIP is based on how your conditions affect you the majority of the time over a 12 month period. So at least 50% of the time. If you can complete an acitivity for 3-4 days per week, each week then you will not score any points for that activity.This link may help, don't know if it's been added as haven't looked back through the thread to check. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities
Yes, but only if they can do it to an acceptable standard without unacceptable aftereffects.
To elaborate for the OP, "can" means "can without impacting your ability to do the other activities, and can do it as often as you need to". Reliably is the most important concept here, especially with fluctuating conditions. Do not make the mistake of interpreting 'can do it' literally - if doing an activity depletes your spoons and means you can't do other daily activities, that is not what's meant by 'can do it'.
Nondisabled people don't have to budget their energy or brainpower to be able to do these activities, that is the huge difference between us managing to do it with a struggle, and them simply doing it as the most basic part of their day.
Further info: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#reliability-1
Rather more in-depth if you wish: https://pipinfo.net/issues/reliably
If I need to do anything else other than cook, then I can't cook, if that makes sense. I couldn't, for example, make dinner, wash up, and then go to a yoga class or meet a friend for a drink. I just don't have the executive function or the energy for that. I am basically limited to one activity a day, and that includes essential things to keep me alive. I'm not sure how to convey this stuff to an assessor.0 -
leeloolee said:Spoonie_Turtle said:poppy12345 said:PIP is based on how your conditions affect you the majority of the time over a 12 month period. So at least 50% of the time. If you can complete an acitivity for 3-4 days per week, each week then you will not score any points for that activity.This link may help, don't know if it's been added as haven't looked back through the thread to check. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities
Yes, but only if they can do it to an acceptable standard without unacceptable aftereffects.
To elaborate for the OP, "can" means "can without impacting your ability to do the other activities, and can do it as often as you need to". Reliably is the most important concept here, especially with fluctuating conditions. Do not make the mistake of interpreting 'can do it' literally - if doing an activity depletes your spoons and means you can't do other daily activities, that is not what's meant by 'can do it'.
Nondisabled people don't have to budget their energy or brainpower to be able to do these activities, that is the huge difference between us managing to do it with a struggle, and them simply doing it as the most basic part of their day.
Further info: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#reliability-1
Rather more in-depth if you wish: https://pipinfo.net/issues/reliably
If I need to do anything else other than cook, then I can't cook, if that makes sense. I couldn't, for example, make dinner, wash up, and then go to a yoga class or meet a friend for a drink. I just don't have the executive function or the energy for that. I am basically limited to one activity a day, and that includes essential things to keep me alive. I'm not sure how to convey this stuff to an assessor.
You convey it by explaining, every part of it and every effect it has on you. So like you've said above - "it takes me forever to do the prep, do the cooking, and then gather the energy to do all the washing up afterwards" (although the washing up isn't counted, but you can include it to paint a full and consistent picture) you'd explain why it takes you forever and then the effect afterwards, especially on any activities you'd reasonably be expected to do if you were to live a typical, nondisabled life.
The basic formula is 'tell them what difficulties you have with the activity' + 'explain why you have those difficulties', for typical days and on worse days.
To get a good idea of exactly what descriptors you would meet and thus how much you should score, you would need to read through the PIP guidance on gov.uk that's been linked a few times. Knowing how it's assessed and therefore how to tailor your answers may help to be able to tackle the form (you may wish to prepare thoughts and maybe draft something before actually applying, or you might be someone who needs the pressure of a deadline to actually be able to start; there's no one right or wrong way to approach it).
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leeloolee said:Muttleythefrog said:leeloolee said:DullGreyGuy said:elsien said:It’s not means tested. Which means that the government decided that it is absolutely fine for someone to claim it if they need it regardless of income.
However I am confused by the comment "if they need it" @elsien. Given PIP is just a cash payment then "need" on the surface really would mean its a means test
The government has decided you can claim it if you qualify... it's nothing to do with "needing" it. An associate is a senior partner in a law firm and blind; I understand he would qualify for PIP (no idea if he claims or not, not my business) but I'd strongly suspect that as he bills out at £1,500 per hour that £68/week is unlikely to even be noticeable in his account and so question how you'd think he "needs" it?
I guess your associate would have a hard time convincing the assessors that he "needs" PIP if he's on that kind of money, but what if his disabilities were so expensive and required so much special equipment that it would make a difference? It's an interesting question - do the assessors actually ask how much you earn? Are they allowed to?
In theory at least, as I referenced above, for someone of wealth they may be better placed to claim PIP because significantly the challenge of getting PIP is proving disablements in a system that can be quite hit and miss or dismissive and requiring of particular approaches to describe and explain disablement. Someone with resource could potentially acquire private medical reports tailored, or helpful, to applying for PIP whereas someone without may struggle to even get GP appointments.
For quick reference... the PIP activities and descriptors...
(Daily Living 10 activities, Mobility 2 activities. 8 Points required for standard award of either component or 12 for enhanced award)
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/Migrated_Documents/adviceguide/pip-9-table-of-activities-descriptors-and-points.pdf
My firm advice would be put aside financial thoughts other than that PIP is absolutely underpinned with explanation for existence precisely for people like you. Focus now entirely on the technical - should you qualify according to the activities looked at and your level of disabilities experienced. If you think so then I would advise applying.
Importantly when looking at the descriptors (point scoring statements of disability) you must bear in mind that to be considered able to do something you must be able to do it reliably... and by reliably for PIP that means- Safely
- To an acceptable standard
- Repeatedly
- In a reasonable time
Given your particular issues it's important I think for me to stress again as others do that you being able to literally do something does not mean you can do it to the standard required to be considered to do so for PIP. This example may help you think about how descriptors and reliability can be considered. e.g. for Mobility 1 activity I can plan a journey outdoors to an unfamiliar or familiar place and I can go on that journey without support..... but the reality is a) it takes me so long to plan such to overcome the fears and anxiety associated that I rarely can go out. b) if I am able to plan and get out I will usually abort the journey due to panic and anxiety or distress c) I need my partner carer to help with the planning and then the support on the journey and even then it is often only so they can get me home after the failed journey. How am I scored for this activity - firstly, correctly (which is an achievement in itself)... I am awarded descriptor (e) Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress. How do they reach this conclusion - well, they accept that when I go out I am unable to follow the route of a familiar journey without my carer (descriptor (f)) and they also accept that at times I can go out without support having planned a journey (as I did for my first PIP assessment in 2016 which ended up with the assessor and myself in distress!) but for the majority of the time my problem is I never start the journey as I am unable to due to overwhelming psychological distress. Therefore descriptor (e) is awarded as while I can go out on a journey, for the majority of the time overwhelming distress prevents it.
"Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack1 -
Muttleythefrog said:leeloolee said:Muttleythefrog said:leeloolee said:DullGreyGuy said:elsien said:It’s not means tested. Which means that the government decided that it is absolutely fine for someone to claim it if they need it regardless of income.
However I am confused by the comment "if they need it" @elsien. Given PIP is just a cash payment then "need" on the surface really would mean its a means test
The government has decided you can claim it if you qualify... it's nothing to do with "needing" it. An associate is a senior partner in a law firm and blind; I understand he would qualify for PIP (no idea if he claims or not, not my business) but I'd strongly suspect that as he bills out at £1,500 per hour that £68/week is unlikely to even be noticeable in his account and so question how you'd think he "needs" it?
I guess your associate would have a hard time convincing the assessors that he "needs" PIP if he's on that kind of money, but what if his disabilities were so expensive and required so much special equipment that it would make a difference? It's an interesting question - do the assessors actually ask how much you earn? Are they allowed to?
In theory at least, as I referenced above, for someone of wealth they may be better placed to claim PIP because significantly the challenge of getting PIP is proving disablements in a system that can be quite hit and miss or dismissive and requiring of particular approaches to describe and explain disablement. Someone with resource could potentially acquire private medical reports tailored, or helpful, to applying for PIP whereas someone without may struggle to even get GP appointments.
For quick reference... the PIP activities and descriptors...
(Daily Living 10 activities, Mobility 2 activities. 8 Points required for standard award of either component or 12 for enhanced award)
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/Migrated_Documents/adviceguide/pip-9-table-of-activities-descriptors-and-points.pdf
My firm advice would be put aside financial thoughts other than that PIP is absolutely underpinned with explanation for existence precisely for people like you. Focus now entirely on the technical - should you qualify according to the activities looked at and your level of disabilities experienced. If you think so then I would advise applying.
Importantly when looking at the descriptors (point scoring statements of disability) you must bear in mind that to be considered able to do something you must be able to do it reliably... and by reliably for PIP that means- Safely
- To an acceptable standard
- Repeatedly
- In a reasonable time
Given your particular issues it's important I think for me to stress again as others do that you being able to literally do something does not mean you can do it to the standard required to be considered to do so for PIP. This example may help you think about how descriptors and reliability can be considered. e.g. for Mobility 1 activity I can plan a journey outdoors to an unfamiliar or familiar place and I can go on that journey without support..... but the reality is a) it takes me so long to plan such to overcome the fears and anxiety associated that I rarely can go out. b) if I am able to plan and get out I will usually abort the journey due to panic and anxiety or distress c) I need my partner carer to help with the planning and then the support on the journey and even then it is often only so they can get me home after the failed journey. How am I scored for this activity - firstly, correctly (which is an achievement in itself)... I am awarded descriptor (e) Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress. How do they reach this conclusion - well, they accept that when I go out I am unable to follow the route of a familiar journey without my carer (descriptor (f)) and they also accept that at times I can go out without support having planned a journey (as I did for my first PIP assessment in 2016 which ended up with the assessor and myself in distress!) but for the majority of the time my problem is I never start the journey as I am unable to due to overwhelming psychological distress. Therefore descriptor (e) is awarded as while I can go out on a journey, for the majority of the time overwhelming distress prevents it.
I genuinely thought until recently that life was like this for everyone. I had no idea that other people can just have an idea and execute it without all this mental turmoil and anguish.1 -
Spoonie_Turtle said:leeloolee said:Spoonie_Turtle said:poppy12345 said:PIP is based on how your conditions affect you the majority of the time over a 12 month period. So at least 50% of the time. If you can complete an acitivity for 3-4 days per week, each week then you will not score any points for that activity.This link may help, don't know if it's been added as haven't looked back through the thread to check. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities
Yes, but only if they can do it to an acceptable standard without unacceptable aftereffects.
To elaborate for the OP, "can" means "can without impacting your ability to do the other activities, and can do it as often as you need to". Reliably is the most important concept here, especially with fluctuating conditions. Do not make the mistake of interpreting 'can do it' literally - if doing an activity depletes your spoons and means you can't do other daily activities, that is not what's meant by 'can do it'.
Nondisabled people don't have to budget their energy or brainpower to be able to do these activities, that is the huge difference between us managing to do it with a struggle, and them simply doing it as the most basic part of their day.
Further info: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#reliability-1
Rather more in-depth if you wish: https://pipinfo.net/issues/reliably
If I need to do anything else other than cook, then I can't cook, if that makes sense. I couldn't, for example, make dinner, wash up, and then go to a yoga class or meet a friend for a drink. I just don't have the executive function or the energy for that. I am basically limited to one activity a day, and that includes essential things to keep me alive. I'm not sure how to convey this stuff to an assessor.
You convey it by explaining, every part of it and every effect it has on you. So like you've said above - "it takes me forever to do the prep, do the cooking, and then gather the energy to do all the washing up afterwards" (although the washing up isn't counted, but you can include it to paint a full and consistent picture) you'd explain why it takes you forever and then the effect afterwards, especially on any activities you'd reasonably be expected to do if you were to live a typical, nondisabled life.
The basic formula is 'tell them what difficulties you have with the activity' + 'explain why you have those difficulties', for typical days and on worse days.
To get a good idea of exactly what descriptors you would meet and thus how much you should score, you would need to read through the PIP guidance on gov.uk that's been linked a few times. Knowing how it's assessed and therefore how to tailor your answers may help to be able to tackle the form (you may wish to prepare thoughts and maybe draft something before actually applying, or you might be someone who needs the pressure of a deadline to actually be able to start; there's no one right or wrong way to approach it).
If I did get awarded PIP, would it be backdated to the date I submitted the claim?0 -
leeloolee said:Spoonie_Turtle said:leeloolee said:Spoonie_Turtle said:poppy12345 said:PIP is based on how your conditions affect you the majority of the time over a 12 month period. So at least 50% of the time. If you can complete an acitivity for 3-4 days per week, each week then you will not score any points for that activity.This link may help, don't know if it's been added as haven't looked back through the thread to check. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities
Yes, but only if they can do it to an acceptable standard without unacceptable aftereffects.
To elaborate for the OP, "can" means "can without impacting your ability to do the other activities, and can do it as often as you need to". Reliably is the most important concept here, especially with fluctuating conditions. Do not make the mistake of interpreting 'can do it' literally - if doing an activity depletes your spoons and means you can't do other daily activities, that is not what's meant by 'can do it'.
Nondisabled people don't have to budget their energy or brainpower to be able to do these activities, that is the huge difference between us managing to do it with a struggle, and them simply doing it as the most basic part of their day.
Further info: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#reliability-1
Rather more in-depth if you wish: https://pipinfo.net/issues/reliably
If I need to do anything else other than cook, then I can't cook, if that makes sense. I couldn't, for example, make dinner, wash up, and then go to a yoga class or meet a friend for a drink. I just don't have the executive function or the energy for that. I am basically limited to one activity a day, and that includes essential things to keep me alive. I'm not sure how to convey this stuff to an assessor.
You convey it by explaining, every part of it and every effect it has on you. So like you've said above - "it takes me forever to do the prep, do the cooking, and then gather the energy to do all the washing up afterwards" (although the washing up isn't counted, but you can include it to paint a full and consistent picture) you'd explain why it takes you forever and then the effect afterwards, especially on any activities you'd reasonably be expected to do if you were to live a typical, nondisabled life.
The basic formula is 'tell them what difficulties you have with the activity' + 'explain why you have those difficulties', for typical days and on worse days.
To get a good idea of exactly what descriptors you would meet and thus how much you should score, you would need to read through the PIP guidance on gov.uk that's been linked a few times. Knowing how it's assessed and therefore how to tailor your answers may help to be able to tackle the form (you may wish to prepare thoughts and maybe draft something before actually applying, or you might be someone who needs the pressure of a deadline to actually be able to start; there's no one right or wrong way to approach it).
If I did get awarded PIP, would it be backdated to the date I submitted the claim?
An award is backdated to the date you phone up to start the claim.1 -
Spoonie_Turtle said:leeloolee said:Spoonie_Turtle said:leeloolee said:Spoonie_Turtle said:poppy12345 said:PIP is based on how your conditions affect you the majority of the time over a 12 month period. So at least 50% of the time. If you can complete an acitivity for 3-4 days per week, each week then you will not score any points for that activity.This link may help, don't know if it's been added as haven't looked back through the thread to check. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities
Yes, but only if they can do it to an acceptable standard without unacceptable aftereffects.
To elaborate for the OP, "can" means "can without impacting your ability to do the other activities, and can do it as often as you need to". Reliably is the most important concept here, especially with fluctuating conditions. Do not make the mistake of interpreting 'can do it' literally - if doing an activity depletes your spoons and means you can't do other daily activities, that is not what's meant by 'can do it'.
Nondisabled people don't have to budget their energy or brainpower to be able to do these activities, that is the huge difference between us managing to do it with a struggle, and them simply doing it as the most basic part of their day.
Further info: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#reliability-1
Rather more in-depth if you wish: https://pipinfo.net/issues/reliably
If I need to do anything else other than cook, then I can't cook, if that makes sense. I couldn't, for example, make dinner, wash up, and then go to a yoga class or meet a friend for a drink. I just don't have the executive function or the energy for that. I am basically limited to one activity a day, and that includes essential things to keep me alive. I'm not sure how to convey this stuff to an assessor.
You convey it by explaining, every part of it and every effect it has on you. So like you've said above - "it takes me forever to do the prep, do the cooking, and then gather the energy to do all the washing up afterwards" (although the washing up isn't counted, but you can include it to paint a full and consistent picture) you'd explain why it takes you forever and then the effect afterwards, especially on any activities you'd reasonably be expected to do if you were to live a typical, nondisabled life.
The basic formula is 'tell them what difficulties you have with the activity' + 'explain why you have those difficulties', for typical days and on worse days.
To get a good idea of exactly what descriptors you would meet and thus how much you should score, you would need to read through the PIP guidance on gov.uk that's been linked a few times. Knowing how it's assessed and therefore how to tailor your answers may help to be able to tackle the form (you may wish to prepare thoughts and maybe draft something before actually applying, or you might be someone who needs the pressure of a deadline to actually be able to start; there's no one right or wrong way to approach it).
If I did get awarded PIP, would it be backdated to the date I submitted the claim?
An award is backdated to the date you phone up to start the claim.0
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