Kicking abusive son out of family home.

MalMonroe

Isn't your GP able to help? I know people with autism who have been helped with medication. Could your son also have something like schizophrenia? Also helped by medication. It may help if he could be thoroughly assessed and a proper and full diagnosis given and then you'd at least have some idea of exactly what you are dealing with.

Are you able to sit down with your son and speak to him sensibly? He is your child too, no matter what his age. It would be awful if you had to banish him from the only home he's ever known. It's very doubtful that he'd cope on his own, on the street. Or even in alternative accommodation. Could he be self-sufficient? 

Maybe he was jealous when his sister was born but because of his autism and ADHD was not able to grow out of it or come to terms with it? Many people can't - hence sibling rivalry. I was jealous when my brother was born when I was 5 - although I denied it  because at 5 I didn't even know what jealousy was.  

Seems like he needs as much care and attention as his sister gets. I find it heartbreaking that you're even considering 'kicking him out' when he's probably suffering as well. His GP may be able to prescribe something for him, or at the very least refer him for psychological assessment and treatment. It might be worth a try. Anything is when it comes to your children, surely? A GP could also help to get social services interested and involved in connection with support for him. 

I can't believe some of the heartless comments here - throw him out and change the locks? That's not how you deal with someone you brought into the world. And having all those other agencies involved, including police - surely will not make his behaviour any better.

Do seek GP help if possible. If he's holding down a job, albeit a zero hours one, then he must have some control over his behaviour, enough that he could be persuaded to seek help, with your support.

This really is very sad. 

marcia_

silvercar said:

marcia_ said:

GDB2222 said:

Out of interest, what happens if you don't kick your vulnerable son out? Will the 'multiple agencies' concerned with your teenage daughter's safety then want to put her in care? Or, to save that very, very considerable expense, will they suddenly look for ways to help your son? 

I know that's high risk, but I'm not sure that you should just kick your son out to suit the SS. Others will say that I'm wrong, and he needs to act in a more adult fashion, but there must be a significant risk of him suffering significant harm if you simply throw him out on the street. 

 Expense doesn't come in to it when it comes to protecting children from harm. 

The problem is that both children need help.

 He's not a child. He's 18 years of age and physically attacking a child. 

housebuyer143

MalMonroe said:

Isn't your GP able to help? I know people with autism who have been helped with medication. Could your son also have something like schizophrenia? Also helped by medication. It may help if he could be thoroughly assessed and a proper and full diagnosis given and then you'd at least have some idea of exactly what you are dealing with.

Are you able to sit down with your son and speak to him sensibly? He is your child too, no matter what his age. It would be awful if you had to banish him from the only home he's ever known. It's very doubtful that he'd cope on his own, on the street. Or even in alternative accommodation. Could he be self-sufficient? 

Maybe he was jealous when his sister was born but because of his autism and ADHD was not able to grow out of it or come to terms with it? Many people can't - hence sibling rivalry. I was jealous when my brother was born when I was 5 - although I denied it  because at 5 I didn't even know what jealousy was.  

Seems like he needs as much care and attention as his sister gets. I find it heartbreaking that you're even considering 'kicking him out' when he's probably suffering as well. His GP may be able to prescribe something for him, or at the very least refer him for psychological assessment and treatment. It might be worth a try. Anything is when it comes to your children, surely? A GP could also help to get social services interested and involved in connection with support for him. 

I can't believe some of the heartless comments here - throw him out and change the locks? That's not how you deal with someone you brought into the world. And having all those other agencies involved, including police - surely will not make his behaviour any better.

Do seek GP help if possible. If he's holding down a job, albeit a zero hours one, then he must have some control over his behaviour, enough that he could be persuaded to seek help, with your support.

This really is very sad. 

Agreed. People saying basically throw him on the street, he should control himself fail to understand how ASD and ADHD can impact a person. If only it were that easy that a stern talking to would resolve the problem 🙄 everyone's problems would be solved. 

I'm not sure the solution though as everything you mentioned is years of wait lists, although with the ADHD diagnosis he could maybe get medication sooner, which might help. 

silvercar

marcia_ said:

silvercar said:

marcia_ said:

GDB2222 said:

Out of interest, what happens if you don't kick your vulnerable son out? Will the 'multiple agencies' concerned with your teenage daughter's safety then want to put her in care? Or, to save that very, very considerable expense, will they suddenly look for ways to help your son? 

I know that's high risk, but I'm not sure that you should just kick your son out to suit the SS. Others will say that I'm wrong, and he needs to act in a more adult fashion, but there must be a significant risk of him suffering significant harm if you simply throw him out on the street. 

 Expense doesn't come in to it when it comes to protecting children from harm. 

The problem is that both children need help.

 He's not a child. He's 18 years of age and physically attacking a child. 

Your child is always your child, no matter what their age.

marcia_

silvercar said:

marcia_ said:

silvercar said:

marcia_ said:

GDB2222 said:

Out of interest, what happens if you don't kick your vulnerable son out? Will the 'multiple agencies' concerned with your teenage daughter's safety then want to put her in care? Or, to save that very, very considerable expense, will they suddenly look for ways to help your son? 

I know that's high risk, but I'm not sure that you should just kick your son out to suit the SS. Others will say that I'm wrong, and he needs to act in a more adult fashion, but there must be a significant risk of him suffering significant harm if you simply throw him out on the street. 

 Expense doesn't come in to it when it comes to protecting children from harm. 

The problem is that both children need help.

 He's not a child. He's 18 years of age and physically attacking a child. 

Your child is always your child, no matter what their age.

Your child and A chid are two very different things, especially when it comes to abuse of a minor

tooldle

I have a sibling exactly like this. Please don't underestimate how awful the situation is for the other child. In my experience things don't improve and the abuse is lifelong. Every aspect of family life is dominated by the behaviour of one person. Respite for the younger child is needed. When they reach adulthood the younger child has more in the way of choices and all of these come with compromise. Normal family life just doesn't exist. Believe me there is nothing worse that the one parent or relative constantly pushing you to engage with the abuser.

ian1246

MalMonroe said:

Isn't your GP able to help? I know people with autism who have been helped with medication. Could your son also have something like schizophrenia? Also helped by medication. It may help if he could be thoroughly assessed and a proper and full diagnosis given and then you'd at least have some idea of exactly what you are dealing with.

Are you able to sit down with your son and speak to him sensibly? He is your child too, no matter what his age. It would be awful if you had to banish him from the only home he's ever known. It's very doubtful that he'd cope on his own, on the street. Or even in alternative accommodation. Could he be self-sufficient? 

Maybe he was jealous when his sister was born but because of his autism and ADHD was not able to grow out of it or come to terms with it? Many people can't - hence sibling rivalry. I was jealous when my brother was born when I was 5 - although I denied it  because at 5 I didn't even know what jealousy was.  

Seems like he needs as much care and attention as his sister gets. I find it heartbreaking that you're even considering 'kicking him out' when he's probably suffering as well. His GP may be able to prescribe something for him, or at the very least refer him for psychological assessment and treatment. It might be worth a try. Anything is when it comes to your children, surely? A GP could also help to get social services interested and involved in connection with support for him. 

I can't believe some of the heartless comments here - throw him out and change the locks? That's not how you deal with someone you brought into the world. And having all those other agencies involved, including police - surely will not make his behaviour any better.

Do seek GP help if possible. If he's holding down a job, albeit a zero hours one, then he must have some control over his behaviour, enough that he could be persuaded to seek help, with your support.

This really is very sad. 

And what of the daughter and constant abuse? Like it or not, 18 years old is an adult and having ADHD is absolutely no excuse for such behaviour (attacking a child). He will have capacity and the ability to decide right from wrong, just like the rest of us. Do you verbally abuse people, assault them? No - because its wrong. If he continues, if he hasn't already, he is going to end up in serious trouble with the law.

In the modern age, such "family" matters aren't just left to the family to manage in-house - because that's how you end up with tragic outcomes and serious case reviews.

The cold brutal truth is this: If the son is known to agencies for physical and emotional abuse of his sister and given he is now 18years old, the expectation is that mum will protect the daughter by removing the threat from the home.

This is no different to a mother in a relationship with an abuser - if there is a risk to the child's safety, the expectation is the mother has to choose between the abuser or her child. 

Multi-agencies can and will take action, via the courts, to get the child to safety if the home is no longer safe (including emotional abuse/harm as well) for them - which it is clearly not in this case.

Any of you advocating the son residing at the address, I would strongly encourage you read about Adverse Childhood Experiences and the potentially catastrophic life-long effects these can have on an individual - including mental health and shortened life expectancies. It's something which is really only coming into focus now and is still relatively in the early years of being understood, but is absolutely something any half competent professional agencies (police & social services) will be aware of. Hence why when they talk about harm to a child, its not just physical harm.

The adult son has to leave.

Adverse Childhood Experiences: 
https://mft.nhs.uk/rmch/services/camhs/young-people/adverse-childhood-experiences-aces-and-attachment/#:~:text=Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) are,(Young Minds, 2018).

• An increase in the risk of certain health problems in adulthood, such as cancer and heart disease, as well as increasing the risk of mental health difficulties, violence and becoming a victim of violence.
• An increase in the risk of mental health problems, such as anxiety, depression, and post-traumatic stress. 1 in 3 diagnosed mental health conditions in adulthood directly relate to ACEs.
• The longer an individual experiences an ACE and the more ACEs someone experiences, the bigger the impact it will have on their development and their health.

There is a body of evidence emerging which shows that being subjected to traumatic Experiences- such as physical and emotional abuse - can literally cause cancer, heart disease and other physical health conditions which may reduce quality of life and their overall life expectancy for that child later on in their life, not even factoring in the impact on their mental health or academic achievements (which can then dictate what options they have later in life for careers).

It's not being heartless to advocate kicking the son out, immediately - it's doing what's right by the child.

Incase anyone thinks its a "NHS' or "Uk-Nanny-state" made up thing, here's the US's centre for disease control on ACE'S.

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/aces/fastfact.html

"ACEs can have lasting, negative effects on health, well-being, as well as life opportunities such as education and job potential. These experiences can increase the risks of injury, sexually transmitted infections, maternal and child health problems (including teen pregnancy, pregnancy complications, and fetal death), involvement in sex trafficking, and a wide range of chronic diseases and leading causes of death such as cancer, diabetes, heart disease, and suicide."

ripplyuk

Why has this only become an issue for social services now? Surely it wasn’t acceptable for him to be abusing your daughter when he was 17yo, or 16yo etc. Or, was your son living somewhere else previously? 

Since he can hold down a job, is there any reason he can’t rent a room somewhere? Landlords are often less fussy about tenants when it’s a single room instead of a whole property. I would strongly advise against being a guarantor for him. 

elsien

Just to reply to @MalMonroe, I don’t feel that chucking out speculative diagnosis by Internet such as schizophrenia is a particularly helpful thing to do.
And the son is an adult. It may very well be helpful for him to request more assessments via his GP, but that is his decision. Some people prefer not to have the autism labels and do not want the diagnosis.

deannagone

I was kind of in this situation.  Autistic adult son, lived in family home, but was violent towards me not my other younger son.  I was concerned about both of them.  My older son's mental health difficulties that weren't his fault were never dealt with when he was younger, he had awful schooling experiences and I was living with a partner who was abusive but unable to disentangle myself (I make no excuses for my part in this).  My older son was very affected by all this.  And very vulnerable too.  

I asked a domestic violence organisation for support (ex no longer had anything to do with the family) was told to phone safeguarding.  They focused totally on my younger son, wanted the older son out of the house but didn't recognise if I threw him out he'd be on the streets.  He didn't have the capacity to apply for housing, was given no support because they somehow judged he was capable.  I did have to ask him to leave, he isn't homeless but his only option was to go to his gf's house which led to all sorts of problems (he is being taken advantage of in every way because that family is also very damaged).  

I had no choice, once I reported the situation, but no one would see that my older son was also vulnerable.  They seriously didn't care that he had no positive options.  He doesn't work.  This was dealing with autistic specialism social workers.  

There is no support for the family or the 'perpetrator' who suddenly ceases to become vulnerable.  There is only you trying to find a way through red tape, and inadequate protection services going by a very limited script who will do nothing positive to actually help.  They just tell you what you have to do. There's no support whatsoever, except what you can pull from yourself.  There never has been for the decades we were dealing with things.  I begged for help many times.  We did get out of the situation partially but there's been a lot of damage I couldn't prevent due to the lack of support.

Its not a black and white situation.  There are so many grey areas.  

Remember. just as with the OP, there is more that is not in the post than is in it, otherwise we'd be posting a book.