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Grumpy's New Car

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  • Grumpy_chap
    Grumpy_chap Posts: 18,233 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    OK - so, I have a couple of cars to view at the weekend.  Both same make and model.  
     - Option 1, 2015 petrol 57k miles, EURO 5
     - Option 2, 2017 diesel 86k miles, EURO 6, £700 more to buy.

    Must be ULEZ compliant.
    I do about 12k miles per year, which would tend to indicate petrol.  That mileage is predominantly 140 mile round trip motorway commute, so diesel dpf issues would likely be avoided.

    If the diesel had lower mileage, I'd go for that.  I am just wondering whether the diesel at 86k miles will start to see bills accrue in the not too-distant...

    What thoughts does anyone have?
  • Goudy
    Goudy Posts: 2,138 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Not sure what you are looking at but in my experience modern common rail diesels can start to throw up a few curve balls from this sort of mileage but it all depends on how they've been used really.

    DPF's even when they have been working correctly naturally fill with ash.
    It's not unheard of for clutches to normally start showing signs of wear around this sort of mileage. I know that's the same with any manual car but you'll be likely looking at replacing the DMF at the same time with a diesel.

    Common rail pumps tend to be quite hardy if they haven't had to deal with contaminated fuel but modern injectors can generally start to cause issues. Their average life span is around 100k, give or take a few miles but they can start playing up before that as they start to mis fuel.

    There are also things like emission controls. EGR's gumming up and failing and it's not unheard of for SCR systems to cause problems. (I'm thinking of Cit/Peug adblue tank/pump/ injector problem that turns out pretty expensive).

    Most modern cars come with a turbo these days, so it's probably an even bet if they both have.

    I'm not against diesels, I'd have my fair share and put a lot of miles on all of them but modern diesels do tend to throw up some big bills as they get on a bit.
    Petrols can catch you out with some big bills but no one asks £1300 for a fuel pump and £350 a piece for injectors before they have even fitted them!


  • Stubod
    Stubod Posts: 2,570 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    I used to buy old diesels with 100k miles on the clock and would then run them over 200k without any issues...BUT, these were pre DMF/DPF days. Not sure I would do the same again today? Prefer smaller engined petrols, some of which can match diesels on economy, (particularly if self charging hybrid)..?
    .."It's everybody's fault but mine...."
  • Grumpy_chap
    Grumpy_chap Posts: 18,233 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Goudy said:

    There are also things like emission controls. EGR's gumming up and failing and it's not unheard of for SCR systems to cause problems. (I'm thinking of Cit/Peug adblue tank/pump/ injector problem that turns out pretty expensive).

    The diesel is a Peugeot 1.6 HDi Blue
  • Herzlos
    Herzlos Posts: 15,861 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    What's the condition of the cars like? Any difference in spec or performance?

    I'd be inclined to take the petrol one unless the diesel one is better in some other way.
  • Goudy
    Goudy Posts: 2,138 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Grumpy_chap said:

    The diesel is a Peugeot 1.6 HDi Blue
    I'm pretty sure they suffer from the Adblue tank/pump/injector issue.
    The pump and tank unit alone is around £900 plus vat even before it's fitted but most dealers will often want to fit the lot, including adblue injector.

    These do suffer from a few fuel injector related maladies as well.
    The most common is the seals leaking. This lets out combustion which tends to cut up the cylinder head around that injector, writing both off if left for any length of time.
    Number 3 is the most common injector to suffer and you may notice what they call "black death" (a coal like build up) around it.

    Also the injectors need to come out if removing the cam cover for any reason (bad design). They tend to seize in the head which ends up with the injector liner parting ways with the rest of the injector when force is applied, this often ends in new injectors and new cylinder head.


  • tedted
    tedted Posts: 456 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts
    on the 1.6 hdi injector removal does not need the cam cover to be removed and injector chuff is rare on these nowadays the last one i did was a berlingo 2013 and just one injector.
  • Grumpy_chap
    Grumpy_chap Posts: 18,233 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Thanks for the comments everyone.

    It really confirmed that my caution about the diesel could be well-founded.  All a balance - the car could be a great one, but not a chance I can afford to take at the moment.

    The petrol would be better and I remain very tempted, but not going ahead because it is EURO5. 
    I will be within the ULEZ zone (from August) and there is no know how or when the Mayor will change the rules. 
    The boundary expanded only a short while ago and then the rules changed to expand it again giving only 12-18 months notice that we need to get rid of our car. 
    If the scheme works, then there will need to be some other change to generate revenue from the infrastructure being installed.  Will that mean requiring petrol cars to be EURO6 (like diesel)?  EURO7 is not here yet and, if there is any logic, then EURO6 cannot be banned until EURO7 has been well established.
  • Goudy
    Goudy Posts: 2,138 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    There isn't really much difference between Euro 5 and Euro 6 when it comes to Petrol engines, it's all pretty much like for like between the two.
    Unlike Diesels that had to drop the NOx from 0.18 to 0.08 and particulates from 0.005 to 0.0045.

    So there isn't a justifiable difference for TFL to change up from one to the other for Petrol engines.
    European emission standards - Wikipedia

    It seems TFL are already talking up a charge to drive in London in anything.
    The area is now blanketed with cameras, but once the profitability wanes as car owners update their cars it looks like they will switch them over to charge anything that moves.
    Road Pricing for the whole of London so to speak.

    Khan has already come out on record with this.
    Sadiq Khan proposes journey charge for motorists in London | London | The Guardian
    and unless someone like Kirk finishes him off, it looks odds on to happen!

  • maxmycardagain
    maxmycardagain Posts: 5,843 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    So, back in 2020, I'd started looking for a new car.  Then COVID happened and never did change.

    Pre-COVID, I was doing well over 35k miles per year.  My default car would have been a Mondeo - they are safe, spacious, comfortable, well-equipped, reliable, highly adaptable / flexible and drive well - pretty hard to beat really.  I was also assessing EV options as alternatives, but none were really suiting with range limitations and cost to buy. 

    I had always deemed I needed the practicality of a hatchback.  With COVID, I am now doing far fewer miles, around 12.5k per year, but that include most of the mileage on my once-per-week commute, 140 mile round trip.  I like a comfortable and high-spec car (adaptive cruise and blind spot indicators would be nice to have), but the reduced mileage over the past years shows that I could get away with less practicality than I'd always assumed.  The Mondeo would still be an excellent choice of car, but Ford have discontinued it and there are not a particularly high number of later models in the used market either (reduced sales during COVID times I suppose).

    I now need to get a new car as I gave the Focus to my Nephew in November and sold the non-ULEZ Fiesta on Friday.  I can still borrow my wife's 2016 Fiesta but there are times when we both need to go to work on the same day plus she will not thank me if I start to rely on her car.

    I could get an "it'll do" car:
    https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303085013924 (though they seem to be painfully slow)
    Or, an "it'll do" car with the extra toys that I'd like:
    https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212312866675 (still very slow)

    There is a massive choice of ICE's, obviously.  If I end up with an ICE, the local LEXUS dealer has an ES on the forecourt which sets the upper-bound for what I'd pay as, if I reached this price-point in finding the right car, I'd just get this:
    https://twickenham.usedcars.lexus.co.uk/en/used-lexus/Lexus/Es-Saloon/300h-Premium-Edition-pbc4a6p
    (though it's over-priced as, in Sept 2021, the same Dealer offered a brand new of the same model and trim at £32k)

    Then comes the exploration into EV options and whether I can make it work financially.

    The bench-mark EV is, obviously, the TM3 / TMY.  Both are £50k new, so that sets an absolute upper limit, which is rather more than I really want to pay.  It rules out the Mercedes / Audi / BMW offerings.

    A few weeks back, we looked at MG and did like the MG5 but then found it has a ZERO NCAP rating (which is disgraceful that any car would be launched with such a disregard for safety).

    The iPACE is an attractive alternative and used prices are rather lower than other similar brands.  I have to admit I am wary of a used EV because of the unknown status of the battery plus the media reports falling prices but I don't seem to find that.  Anyway, there are reasonable examples available:
    https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202204064369741
    https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202302244604541

    Then, again, they are no more favourable than TM3:
    https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202304066019171
    https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/m3/order/5YJ3F7EB4LF605238#overview

    I have considered the Kia / Hyundai EV's which have good range, but the price point does not make sense against the Tesla's at the moment.

    The C4 EV is quite a stylish option, but small battery and short range.  Fairly similar with the Megane.
    The iD3 is quite a poor build quality when we saw one a month back - nothing to compare with a Golf

    Is there an option we've missed?

    If we end up with another ICE, do we go for the good car we like, or the cheaper stop-gap until a suitable EV is possible?


    My choice?

    A Skoda Superb 1.6 Estate, as big as a barge, 65mpg and £30 a year road tax, drove mine from Calais to Roses in Spain on 1 tank of diesel,  750 miles... 

    The Passat Business and Skoda Octavia i had showed 70mpg on 250 mile trips but never did Spain in them 
    Now we all know how it felt to play in the band on the Titanic...
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