WASPI ‘victory’

BlackKnightMonty

westv said:

BlackKnightMonty said:

MACKEM99 said:

BlackKnightMonty said:

Troytempest said:

Think we have gone drastically off topic!

We haven’t. There isn’t an endless pot of government money; and these WASPI claims will only place more strain on things.

More people need to pay more tax and take less freebies. Otherwise our kids and grandkids will be totally screwed.

There seemed to be an endless pot of money during the pandemic to pay people 80% of their salary to stay at home and do nothing, giving them amounts a state pensioner could only dream of?

The furlough gravy was paid by increasing national debt. A foolish move, and we should introduce a furlough tax for the money to be repaid in full.

UK Debt to GDP is now around 100% if it goes higher the perception of the UK will worsen in the financial markets leading to weakened investment and weakened sterling.

There is another way to pay for the rising SP and that is tax. As I’ve highlighted before currently 53.8% of all UK households receive more in benefits/services than they contribute in all taxes. If we raised taxes sufficiently; say 10% on the basic rate of income tax (more in line with other European nations) then we could probably get the percentage down to say 40% net benefiters (as it was back in the late ‘70s and early ‘80s…

Do you mean an additional 10% to 30% or 10% more to 22%?

Sorry I was unclear.

Yes an additional 10% to 30% basic rate income tax.

Then 10% National Insurance on top for a proper State Pension.

Malthusian

BlackKnightMonty said:

Sorry I was unclear.

Yes an additional 10% to 30% basic rate income tax.

Then 10% National Insurance on top for a proper State Pension.

Are you the guy who started the petition on parliament.uk for a State Pension of £28,500pa payable from 60?

Is that 10% on employer's NI as well or just employee's?

58% (or 61%) income tax on everyone earning more than £12,570. From each according to his ability!

xylophone

It should be remembered that increasing state pension and not increasing the Personal Allowance will lead to more pensioners paying tax/increasing amount of tax they pay.

BlackKnightMonty

Malthusian said:

BlackKnightMonty said:

Sorry I was unclear.

Yes an additional 10% to 30% basic rate income tax.

Then 10% National Insurance on top for a proper State Pension.

Are you the guy who started the petition on parliament.uk for a State Pension of £28,500pa payable from 60?

Is that 10% on employer's NI as well or just employee's?

58% (or 61%) income tax on everyone earning more than £12,570. From each according to his ability!

No not me. I think the SP set to the NMW is about right.

30% Income Tax and 10% Employee NI. Effectively 40% on anyone earning more than £NMW.

Sounds pretty fair when higher incomes have marginals way way way above that; and no benefits.

Let’s compare.

£35k (average UK Salary) £6,729 IT&NI (+ lots of benefits, and £12,570 Personal Allowance)

£140k (x4 UK average Salary) £54,767 IT&NI (and absolutely zero benefits, and £0 Personal Allowance)

Here we can see that although someone earns x4 UK average salary they pay x8 in tax.

so yes; 40% basic tax rate sounds fair.

Malthusian

xylophone said:

It should be remembered that increasing state pension and not increasing the Personal Allowance will lead to more pensioners paying tax/increasing amount of tax they pay.

Good point, and don't forget that the State Pension is always paid gross with no tax deducted, so unless you committed another big wodge of taxpayer's money to link the DWP to PAYE, every State Pensioner would have to submit a tax return on their £28,500pa State Pensions and budget for their annual tax bill like the self-employed. 

The traditional solution was to increase the personal allowance to keep the State Pension out of the tax net (other than a minority of people with large earnings-linked State Pensions), but everyone needs to pay more tax remember (regardless of whether it does anyone any good).

(I don't think WASPI ever got as far as deciding how they should account for income tax on their cheques for £45,000 - i.e. whether it would all be taxed in one go or whether they would have to work out how much extra tax they would have paid in each tax year if their State Pensions had been paid from 60 originally.)

Qyburn

BlackKnightMonty said:

£35k (average UK Salary) £6,729 IT&NI (+ lots of benefits, and £12,570 Personal Allowance)

£140k (x4 UK average Salary) £54,767 IT&NI (and absolutely zero benefits, and £0 Personal Allowance)

Here we can see that although someone earns x4 UK average salary they pay x8 in tax.

You're presenting the figures to support your opinion. It would be equally valid to say the guy earning four times the salary before tax, still ends up with three times as much tske home pay.

BlackKnightMonty

Qyburn said:

BlackKnightMonty said:

£35k (average UK Salary) £6,729 IT&NI (+ lots of benefits, and £12,570 Personal Allowance)

£140k (x4 UK average Salary) £54,767 IT&NI (and absolutely zero benefits, and £0 Personal Allowance)

Here we can see that although someone earns x4 UK average salary they pay x8 in tax.

You're presenting the figures to support your opinion. It would be equally valid to say the guy earning four times the salary before tax, still ends up with three times as much tske home pay.

Trouble is the folk on these wages are leaving the UK for Singapore, Dubai, USA, Australia; where success is not vilified, and taxation levels on the well paid are not so utterly unfair and obtuse.

The UK has some of the lowest income tax levels in Europe for the low paid, and some of the highest income taxes on the highest.

Perhaps a nice easy 40% flat tax across the board. No tax credits, no personal allowances. The more you earn the more you contribute on a totally level playing field.

I wonder how many people would vote for a fair system like that?

hyubh

BlackKnightMonty said:

Qyburn said:

BlackKnightMonty said:

£35k (average UK Salary) £6,729 IT&NI (+ lots of benefits, and £12,570 Personal Allowance)

£140k (x4 UK average Salary) £54,767 IT&NI (and absolutely zero benefits, and £0 Personal Allowance)

Here we can see that although someone earns x4 UK average salary they pay x8 in tax.

You're presenting the figures to support your opinion. It would be equally valid to say the guy earning four times the salary before tax, still ends up with three times as much tske home pay.

Trouble is the folk on these wages are leaving the UK for Singapore, Dubai, USA, Australia; where success is not vilified, and taxation levels on the well paid are not so utterly unfair and obtuse.

The UK has some of the lowest income tax levels in Europe for the low paid, and some of the highest income taxes on the highest.

Perhaps a nice easy 40% flat tax across the board. No tax credits, no personal allowances. The more you earn the more you contribute on a totally level playing field.

I wonder how many people would vote for a fair system like that?

Surprised as a UAE stan you're into voting...!

Pollycat

Hello?
The title of this thread is "WASPI 'victory'".

This discussion is going seriously off-topic.

BlackKnightMonty

Pollycat said:

Hello?
The title of this thread is "WASPI 'victory'".

This discussion is going seriously off-topic.

Getting back on topic; there isn’t any money left for massive payouts on dubious grounds that you weren’t informed.