Octopus Agile

teaselMay

Nasty affliction that

Telegraph_Sam

I'd be interested to know just what they do with the wind turbines when it is deemed to be too windy for them. They can't just dial up the local Pickfords people and put them into storage.

I have a gut feel that comparing the p/kWh of elec, gas, oil, wind, tidal and nuclear is just way too simple. If I want 1.7 L of boiling water I use the kettle. To do the same with gas etc involves heating up the whole water supply.

@greenbee and @teaselMay and @EH:  I think what you say demonstrates the downside of Agile. With such fluctuations the consumer has to keep an eye constantly on what the market price is doing every 1/2 hour, and adjust his/her consumption accordingly. Whereas with Tracker, in its present form, I can do the check once a day and then forget about it. Convenience is worth a penny or two. And it is by no means certain that taking the high risk, high reward option with Agile does in fact result in any consistent meaningful savings.  Based of course on my "Compare" consumption profile and the available tariff versions.

greenbee

@Telegraph_Sam - the half hour pricing isn’t really the issue you think. Pricing is released at 4pm each day until 11pm the next day. If it’s a fairly ordinary day in terms of price fluctuations I leave it alone and let the battery pick the best times to charge up and just carry on as normal. I do try to make sure that any demanding use I might have is finished before the slots the battery has selected so it has time to top up. 

If there is pricing below 10p for a long period and I have laundry/batch cooking/dishwashing to do I’ll switch to a manual programme for the battery, and work out when I’m going to do what (the dishwasher, dryer, and slow cooker have delayed starts, the washing machine a delayed finish - so I set them up and leave them to it), plan for the oven to turn on in a not-too-bad slot (once it is up to temp it runs off battery happily) and maybe even discharge the battery at 15p/kWh before the charging slots start. 

If pricing is below 6p/kWh I set the immersion for those timeslots, as well as all the electric heating/heated airer if being used. I can set the times once in the app and then apply them to everything so it takes very little time. Once it’s done, I just leave it to it. 

This morning I unloaded the WM when I got up to take the dog out, and stuck another quick wash in. Which means I’ve got all the laundry done and soup made for the week before I got up, as well as batch cooking with/after supper yesterday evening which will see us through the next few busy weeks at work, and have avoided some oil use - oh, and the stuff used for batch cooking is clean having been through the dishwasher overnight. 

A bit of planning has meant that the stormy night has set us up nicely for the week ahead and left us with a full battery in case of power cuts (and the expected lack of solar generation) over the next couple of days.

teaselMay

I only check once a day too. If there are big dips I'll decide whether to put a wash on in the dip or dry what's hanging up in the drier. For several months when I was first on agile I literally didn't shift any use and made a saving, but I'm a relatively low user and didn't tend to use a lot around tea time.

I don't disagree that tracker may be better for some though,  a friend is on octopus and I could see if they chose agile they'd end up with a much higher bill, with oven on regularly at 5--6.30 most days and a much busier lifestyle than me.

matt_drummer

Telegraph_Sam said:

I'd be interested to know just what they do with the wind turbines when it is deemed to be too windy for them. They can't just dial up the local Pickfords people and put them into storage.

They feather the turbine blades to stop them turning.

The blades are not fixed in one position, they pivot to adjust pitch (the angle they meet the airflow) just like helicopter blades or the propeller blades on most larger aircraft.

The blades on an aircraft engine vary their pitch depending on the power requested by the pilot. They spin at a constant speed whatever the power requested by the pilot as this makes power changes faster than altering the speed of the propeller. If their is a problem with an engine the engine can be stopped but if the pitch of the blades was left alone the propeller would continue to turn (windmill) damaging the engine and adding excess drag to the aircraft.

To stop this the blades are put into a position parallel to the airflow and this stops them turning, it's called the feathered position.

Wind turbines do the same

teaselMay

matt_drummer said:

Telegraph_Sam said:

I'd be interested to know just what they do with the wind turbines when it is deemed to be too windy for them. They can't just dial up the local Pickfords people and put them into storage.

They feather the turbine blades to stop them turning.

The blades are not fixed in one position, they pivot to adjust pitch (the angle they meet the airflow) just like helicopter blades or the propeller blades on most larger aircraft.

The blades on an aircraft engine vary their pitch depending on the power requested by the pilot. They spin at a constant speed whatever the power requested by the pilot as this makes power changes faster than altering the speed of the propeller. If their is a problem with an engine the engine can be stopped but if the pitch of the blades was left alone the propeller would continue to turn (windmill) damaging the engine and adding excess drag to the aircraft.

To stop this the blades are put into a position parallel to the airflow and this stops them turning, it's called the feathered position.

Wind turbines do the same

Thanks Matt, I keep meaning to look up how they stop them and then forgetting until I next wonder it on a very windy day

EssexHebridean

I knew the theory but that is a very clear description indeed! 

I too am not finding Agile too onerous. It’s been excellent for encouraging us away from the 4-7pm peak as a time to use any significant amount of energy. Load shifting to overnight for a lot of stuff isn’t problematic at all for us - having previously had 20 years on E7 and been - if I say so myself - FLIPPING GOOD at getting our bills as low as was possible for our household we are already very tuned in to having to think about timings. (And it’s definitely still an utter luxury not to have to get up and shower before peak rates kick in!)  Getting in to a habit of checking the timings for the cheapest Agile slots has been fine - and if there is no washing, dishwasher load or o en use to consider then there’s no major amount of planning anyway. 

This morning I have got up and stuck the oven on to roast some bits - but allowing for timings for our plans later I’d have wanted to do that anyway. So far including WM & DW overnight too we have used a shade under 5kWh so far today at a cost of 36p. No arguments from me! 

greenbee

Thanks @matt_drummer - that's a really clear explanation. (My local community-owned wind turbine has it's blades missing at the moment, so I assume it is being serviced ... but there are plenty of others around to make up for it!)

23kWh here so far today @EssexHebridean at a cost of £1.10 - yesterday was a bit more expensive with 29 kWh and a cost of £2.58 but I made a decision to use some power before the really low rates kicked in. 

As you say, it's a question of looking at the rates, and if there is nothing to be load shifted, then carrying on as normal. Having grown up with E7, like you I'm used to running the WM/DW overnight - and TBH I find it convenient having things clean and ready to deal with first thing... although with laundry that obviously works better when you know you're going to hang it out and make the most of outside drying! 

QrizB

Telegraph_Sam said:

I have a gut feel that comparing the p/kWh of elec, gas, oil, wind, tidal and nuclear is just way too simple. If I want 1.7 L of boiling water I use the kettle. To do the same with gas etc involves heating up the whole water supply.

Stovetop kettle.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394243931434

I've had one of those for a couple of years now. Typically gets used in the winter, when the heat (and it does use more energy than an electric kettle, it's just more *much cheaper* energy) offsets my space heating demand so it's pretty much free.

There's a kettle thread from 2022 over on "green & ethical" where the costs/savings are worked through in detail (using 2022 prices), if you're really that interested:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6386300

Telegraph_Sam

I had not anticipated such a copious response to my  layman's observations.  Enough to study to fill in a stormy weekend.  Conclusions:
It helps if you have a smart battery that does the basic groundwork for you.
And an attitude to play around with the technical options coupled with being organised to an extent that many of us aren't. Strikes me that plug 'n play is not what it's about.
And the relative attractions of Agile will depend on what they do to Tracker updates in the coming weeks.