Amazon Nightmare

elsien

I film myself opening expensive items. I had a laptop delivered to a collection point in the shop which they couldn’t find for several days after if had been delivered. Absolutely I was going to film myself opening it, I don’t see it as being abnormal behaviour in the circumstances.
Although that was less about the potential for theft, and more because I wanted to make sure I wasn’t opening a damaged item.

Belt and braces. 

JReacher1

elsien said:

I film myself opening expensive items. I had a laptop delivered to a collection point in the shop which they couldn’t find for several days after if had been delivered. Absolutely I was going to film myself opening it, I don’t see it as being abnormal behaviour in the circumstances.
Although that was less about the potential for theft, and more because I wanted to make sure I wasn’t opening a damaged item.

Belt and braces. 

What does filming opening the parcel actually prove though? You could have tampered with the the parcel before you started filming. 

I agree with other posters that it just seems like a waste of time.

if anyone reads Michael Connelly there was a Harry Bosch novel which was all around someone filming themselves opening an evidence box to prove it had not been tampered with when in reality it had already been compromised. 

Aylesbury_Duck

Undervalued said:

Sarahspangles said:

I doubt Amazon will share the extent of their internal fraud/theft problem with the BBC or indeed anyone else.  It would impact their reputation, such as it is.  But it is a fact that if buying a laptop/mobile phone comes up in conversation with friends, so does the issue that Amazon’s price may be cheap but to be wary as we all know - directly - someone who has opened a distribution-centre sealed parcel with a heavy but low cost substitute item.

No we don't!

You may personally know somebody but I certainly don't. Nor do I know anybody who claims to know somebody.

Nor me.  I hear it lots on here, but have never encountered it "in the real world".

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

JReacher1 said:

elsien said:

I film myself opening expensive items. I had a laptop delivered to a collection point in the shop which they couldn’t find for several days after if had been delivered. Absolutely I was going to film myself opening it, I don’t see it as being abnormal behaviour in the circumstances.
Although that was less about the potential for theft, and more because I wanted to make sure I wasn’t opening a damaged item.

Belt and braces. 

What does filming opening the parcel actually prove though? You could have tampered with the the parcel before you started filming. 

In terms of Amazon, as someone else mentioned, they use reenforced tape and it's printed with their branding, presumably not impossible, but it's much trickier to get the tape off in a manner that would allow to you to stick it back in a way that looked as if it had never been opened. 

It would be interesting to know in these cases who the carrier is and whether there's any correlation there.

My wife's last phone from Music Magpie was delivered by Royal Mail Special Delivery, it was only in a grey mailing bag which surprised me given the price, but I'd expect less problems with that service compared to say Evri. 

I sit in the camp of not trusting Amazon for high vale items. I think the odds of a problem with them are no doubt the same as anywhere else but it's a question of customer service, if you purchased from say Currys, who often crop up on here, at least it's easier to raise a complaint to a higher level and hopefully get some sense, with Amazon it's a chat or phone call with an overseas rep who will forward it on to an internal department who may send out the same stock messages without acknowledging the points you are raising. 

On the subject of filming parcels, some may find it odd but I find it odd given so much of our lives is now filmed, either by ourselves as we go about it or by CCTV or the like, that you wouldn't. When there is hundreds of pounds at (a very small) risk why wouldn't you use a tool that sits in your hands every day to help cover yourself for something going wrong?  

drjohn67

I put up a post regarding this issue, that I had just experienced, and also the previous BBC report. 

It feels like some people who are fortunate enough to have not experienced this issue just quote the rate of events. The impact of such a high value loss generates a disproportionate risk. 

In my case, the packaging weight on the package received was not consistent with my purchase but rather instead with the item substituted. Either the item was switched before leaving Amazon or the thieves had repackaged and paid for the new transport costs (not sure how this was done in a manner so similar to normal Amazon packaging). 

Amazon being so big seems to have blind spots in their organisation. If so many small supermarkets are able to accurately auto-detect even tiny groceries at the automated checkout, why can’t Amazon track the weight of packages leaving the depot? That surely would help prove if the substitutions occur after leaving Amazon. 

Opening the item before you sign for it / the driver leaves should be effective - depending upon the driver this may not be well received. 

JReacher1

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

JReacher1 said:

elsien said:

I film myself opening expensive items. I had a laptop delivered to a collection point in the shop which they couldn’t find for several days after if had been delivered. Absolutely I was going to film myself opening it, I don’t see it as being abnormal behaviour in the circumstances.
Although that was less about the potential for theft, and more because I wanted to make sure I wasn’t opening a damaged item.

Belt and braces. 

What does filming opening the parcel actually prove though? You could have tampered with the the parcel before you started filming. 

In terms of Amazon, as someone else mentioned, they use reenforced tape and it's printed with their branding, presumably not impossible, but it's much trickier to get the tape off in a manner that would allow to you to stick it back in a way that looked as if it had never been opened. 

It would be interesting to know in these cases who the carrier is and whether there's any correlation there.

My wife's last phone from Music Magpie was delivered by Royal Mail Special Delivery, it was only in a grey mailing bag which surprised me given the price, but I'd expect less problems with that service compared to say Evri. 

I sit in the camp of not trusting Amazon for high vale items. I think the odds of a problem with them are no doubt the same as anywhere else but it's a question of customer service, if you purchased from say Currys, who often crop up on here, at least it's easier to raise a complaint to a higher level and hopefully get some sense, with Amazon it's a chat or phone call with an overseas rep who will forward it on to an internal department who may send out the same stock messages without acknowledging the points you are raising. 

On the subject of filming parcels, some may find it odd but I find it odd given so much of our lives is now filmed, either by ourselves as we go about it or by CCTV or the like, that you wouldn't. When there is hundreds of pounds at (a very small) risk why wouldn't you use a tool that sits in your hands every day to help cover yourself for something going wrong?  

It’s a cardboard box mate. You can just go through the bottom with a knife. Swap the product and then film yourself opening it from the top and showing the wrong item. 

I accept some people think that it’s perfectly sensible to film yourself opening a parcel but sadly it doesn’t prove anything really. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

JReacher1 said:

It’s a cardboard box mate. You can just go through the bottom with a knife. Swap the product and then film yourself opening it from the top and showing the wrong item. 

Well yes that doesn't help, an uninterrupted video of the full box and opening would be better. 

Ultimately a customer would have to go to small claims as a last resort and whether such "evidence" would help sway the decision on the balance of probabilities I can't say.

Undervalued

JReacher1 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

JReacher1 said:

elsien said:

I film myself opening expensive items. I had a laptop delivered to a collection point in the shop which they couldn’t find for several days after if had been delivered. Absolutely I was going to film myself opening it, I don’t see it as being abnormal behaviour in the circumstances.
Although that was less about the potential for theft, and more because I wanted to make sure I wasn’t opening a damaged item.

Belt and braces. 

What does filming opening the parcel actually prove though? You could have tampered with the the parcel before you started filming. 

In terms of Amazon, as someone else mentioned, they use reenforced tape and it's printed with their branding, presumably not impossible, but it's much trickier to get the tape off in a manner that would allow to you to stick it back in a way that looked as if it had never been opened. 

It would be interesting to know in these cases who the carrier is and whether there's any correlation there.

My wife's last phone from Music Magpie was delivered by Royal Mail Special Delivery, it was only in a grey mailing bag which surprised me given the price, but I'd expect less problems with that service compared to say Evri. 

I sit in the camp of not trusting Amazon for high vale items. I think the odds of a problem with them are no doubt the same as anywhere else but it's a question of customer service, if you purchased from say Currys, who often crop up on here, at least it's easier to raise a complaint to a higher level and hopefully get some sense, with Amazon it's a chat or phone call with an overseas rep who will forward it on to an internal department who may send out the same stock messages without acknowledging the points you are raising. 

On the subject of filming parcels, some may find it odd but I find it odd given so much of our lives is now filmed, either by ourselves as we go about it or by CCTV or the like, that you wouldn't. When there is hundreds of pounds at (a very small) risk why wouldn't you use a tool that sits in your hands every day to help cover yourself for something going wrong?  

It’s a cardboard box mate. You can just go through the bottom with a knife. Swap the product and then film yourself opening it from the top and showing the wrong item. 

I accept some people think that it’s perfectly sensible to film yourself opening a parcel but sadly it doesn’t prove anything really. 

True, but in some respects it doesn't have to. It is simply one piece of evidence for the judge to take into account in deciding who to believe on the balance of probabilities.

Undervalued

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

JReacher1 said:

elsien said:

I film myself opening expensive items. I had a laptop delivered to a collection point in the shop which they couldn’t find for several days after if had been delivered. Absolutely I was going to film myself opening it, I don’t see it as being abnormal behaviour in the circumstances.
Although that was less about the potential for theft, and more because I wanted to make sure I wasn’t opening a damaged item.

Belt and braces. 

What does filming opening the parcel actually prove though? You could have tampered with the the parcel before you started filming. 

In terms of Amazon, as someone else mentioned, they use reenforced tape and it's printed with their branding, presumably not impossible, but it's much trickier to get the tape off in a manner that would allow to you to stick it back in a way that looked as if it had never been opened. 

It would be interesting to know in these cases who the carrier is and whether there's any correlation there.

My wife's last phone from Music Magpie was delivered by Royal Mail Special Delivery, it was only in a grey mailing bag which surprised me given the price, but I'd expect less problems with that service compared to say Evri. 

I sit in the camp of not trusting Amazon for high vale items. I think the odds of a problem with them are no doubt the same as anywhere else but it's a question of customer service, if you purchased from say Currys, who often crop up on here, at least it's easier to raise a complaint to a higher level and hopefully get some sense, with Amazon it's a chat or phone call with an overseas rep who will forward it on to an internal department who may send out the same stock messages without acknowledging the points you are raising. 

On the subject of filming parcels, some may find it odd but I find it odd given so much of our lives is now filmed, either by ourselves as we go about it or by CCTV or the like, that you wouldn't. When there is hundreds of pounds at (a very small) risk why wouldn't you use a tool that sits in your hands every day to help cover yourself for something going wrong?  

I understand the uneasy feeling but, I have to say, on the rare occasion I have had a problem with an Amazon transaction I have always achieved the outcome I wanted by being politely but firmly persistent with online chats (which I carefully save before exiting). I always ask their agent to email me with a summary of what we have discussed / agreed and that has always happened.

Manxman_in_exile

Undervalued said:

JReacher1 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

JReacher1 said:

elsien said:

I film myself opening expensive items. I had a laptop delivered to a collection point in the shop which they couldn’t find for several days after if had been delivered. Absolutely I was going to film myself opening it, I don’t see it as being abnormal behaviour in the circumstances.
Although that was less about the potential for theft, and more because I wanted to make sure I wasn’t opening a damaged item.

Belt and braces. 

What does filming opening the parcel actually prove though? You could have tampered with the the parcel before you started filming. 

In terms of Amazon, as someone else mentioned, they use reenforced tape and it's printed with their branding, presumably not impossible, but it's much trickier to get the tape off in a manner that would allow to you to stick it back in a way that looked as if it had never been opened. 

It would be interesting to know in these cases who the carrier is and whether there's any correlation there.

My wife's last phone from Music Magpie was delivered by Royal Mail Special Delivery, it was only in a grey mailing bag which surprised me given the price, but I'd expect less problems with that service compared to say Evri. 

I sit in the camp of not trusting Amazon for high vale items. I think the odds of a problem with them are no doubt the same as anywhere else but it's a question of customer service, if you purchased from say Currys, who often crop up on here, at least it's easier to raise a complaint to a higher level and hopefully get some sense, with Amazon it's a chat or phone call with an overseas rep who will forward it on to an internal department who may send out the same stock messages without acknowledging the points you are raising. 

On the subject of filming parcels, some may find it odd but I find it odd given so much of our lives is now filmed, either by ourselves as we go about it or by CCTV or the like, that you wouldn't. When there is hundreds of pounds at (a very small) risk why wouldn't you use a tool that sits in your hands every day to help cover yourself for something going wrong?  

It’s a cardboard box mate. You can just go through the bottom with a knife. Swap the product and then film yourself opening it from the top and showing the wrong item. 

I accept some people think that it’s perfectly sensible to film yourself opening a parcel but sadly it doesn’t prove anything really. 

True, but in some respects it doesn't have to. It is simply one piece of evidence for the judge to take into account in deciding who to believe on the balance of probabilities.

That's how I would view it too.  It's just another piece of evidence that may not be conclusive of anything on its own, but adds to the overall evidence supporting any claim.