PCM Claim Form time to write a defence

Coupon-mad

Ah OK, no I wasn't muddling up your case with another.  I just noticed you said you'd won before, and so I was just asking if it was the same claimant and location as last time.

And re not being the driver, I would add this to paragraph 2 of the Template Defence:

The Defendant is the registered keeper, but uses a second car day to day, and this car is driven by the Defendant's partner.  The Defendant was not the driver of the vehicle in question.

Then use paragraph 3 to include your own facts and then para 4 for forbidding signage - no contract.  And object to Gladstones trying to add interest at 10.25% which is extortionate.

You don't need para 4 of the Template Defence, just add it from para 5 onwards.

Johnson2015

Coupon-mad said:

Ah OK, no I wasn't muddling up your case with another.  I just noticed you said you'd won before, and so I was just asking if it was the same claimant and location as last time.

And re not being the driver, I would add this to paragraph 2 of the Template Defence:

The Defendant is the registered keeper, but uses a second car day to day, and this car is driven by the Defendant's partner.  The Defendant was not the driver of the vehicle in question.

Then use paragraph 3 to include your own facts and then para 4 for forbidding signage - no contract.  And object to Gladstones trying to add interest at 10.25% which is extortionate.

You don't need para 4 of the Template Defence, just add it from para 5 onwards.

Thank you for clarifying further. I will do the above and post one more draft. Less than a week to until its due. 

Umkomaas

Johnson2015 said:

Coupon-mad said:

Ah OK, no I wasn't muddling up your case with another.  I just noticed you said you'd won before, and so I was just asking if it was the same claimant and location as last time.

And re not being the driver, I would add this to paragraph 2 of the Template Defence:

The Defendant is the registered keeper, but uses a second car day to day, and this car is driven by the Defendant's partner.  The Defendant was not the driver of the vehicle in question.

Then use paragraph 3 to include your own facts and then para 4 for forbidding signage - no contract.  And object to Gladstones trying to add interest at 10.25% which is extortionate.

You don't need para 4 of the Template Defence, just add it from para 5 onwards.

Thank you for clarifying further. I will do the above and post one more draft. Less than a week to until its due. 

Just your own paragraphs (not the entire template (spare us!). Also, simplify you para numbers, a basic 1,2,3,4,5 ....... not the more complicated (such as) 1.13, 1.14, 1.15 etc ....  Make it easier for the Judge to reference. 

B789

B789 said:

Just number every paragraph sequentially. If you think something needs to be on a separate line without numbering, then indent it and maybe use something like i), ii), iii), iv) or a), b), c) etc.

@Johnson2015, Which bit about the above advice did you not notice? Just number every paragraph sequentially without all this sub-numbering.

Johnson2015

Umkomaas said:

Johnson2015 said:

Coupon-mad said:

Ah OK, no I wasn't muddling up your case with another.  I just noticed you said you'd won before, and so I was just asking if it was the same claimant and location as last time.

And re not being the driver, I would add this to paragraph 2 of the Template Defence:

The Defendant is the registered keeper, but uses a second car day to day, and this car is driven by the Defendant's partner.  The Defendant was not the driver of the vehicle in question.

Then use paragraph 3 to include your own facts and then para 4 for forbidding signage - no contract.  And object to Gladstones trying to add interest at 10.25% which is extortionate.

You don't need para 4 of the Template Defence, just add it from para 5 onwards.

Thank you for clarifying further. I will do the above and post one more draft. Less than a week to until its due. 

Just your own paragraphs (not the entire template (spare us!). Also, simplify you para numbers, a basic 1,2,3,4,5 ....... not the more complicated (such as) 1.13, 1.14, 1.15 etc ....  Make it easier for the Judge to reference. 

Thank you for this feedback. You make a very valid point. 

Johnson2015

B789 said:

B789 said:

Just number every paragraph sequentially. If you think something needs to be on a separate line without numbering, then indent it and maybe use something like i), ii), iii), iv) or a), b), c) etc.

@Johnson2015, Which bit about the above advice did you not notice? Just number every paragraph sequentially without all this sub-numbering.

Yes Ive taken onboard all the feedback. It's very helpful and appreciated. I am just trying to get the information and my perspective down first and make it make sense to me before I tackle the layout of the actual document. I understand that the numbering is confusing, so I will endeavour in the final draft in a few days to make sure the paragraphs are numbered sequentially. 

Johnson2015

Coupon-mad said:

Ah OK, no I wasn't muddling up your case with another.  I just noticed you said you'd won before, and so I was just asking if it was the same claimant and location as last time.

And re not being the driver, I would add this to paragraph 2 of the Template Defence:

The Defendant is the registered keeper, but uses a second car day to day, and this car is driven by the Defendant's partner.  The Defendant was not the driver of the vehicle in question.

Then use paragraph 3 to include your own facts and then para 4 for forbidding signage - no contract.  And object to Gladstones trying to add interest at 10.25% which is extortionate.

You don't need para 4 of the Template Defence, just add it from para 5 onwards.

I was always told to never name a driver or hint at anyone else who may drive the vehicle. "Is saying "this car is driven by defendants partner" a good idea?

Johnson2015

Johnson2015 said:

Coupon-mad said:

Ah OK, no I wasn't muddling up your case with another.  I just noticed you said you'd won before, and so I was just asking if it was the same claimant and location as last time.

And re not being the driver, I would add this to paragraph 2 of the Template Defence:

The Defendant is the registered keeper, but uses a second car day to day, and this car is driven by the Defendant's partner.  The Defendant was not the driver of the vehicle in question.

Then use paragraph 3 to include your own facts and then para 4 for forbidding signage - no contract.  And object to Gladstones trying to add interest at 10.25% which is extortionate.

You don't need para 4 of the Template Defence, just add it from para 5 onwards.

Thank you for clarifying further. I will do the above and post one more draft. Less than a week to until its due. 

Johnson2015 said:

Coupon-mad said:

Ah OK, no I wasn't muddling up your case with another.  I just noticed you said you'd won before, and so I was just asking if it was the same claimant and location as last time.

And re not being the driver, I would add this to paragraph 2 of the Template Defence:

The Defendant is the registered keeper, but uses a second car day to day, and this car is driven by the Defendant's partner.  The Defendant was not the driver of the vehicle in question.

Then use paragraph 3 to include your own facts and then para 4 for forbidding signage - no contract.  And object to Gladstones trying to add interest at 10.25% which is extortionate.

You don't need para 4 of the Template Defence, just add it from para 5 onwards.

Thank you for clarifying further. I will do the above and post one more draft. Less than a week to until its due. 

4th draft as you say I've amended paragraphs to suit my case. Just another thing, why should I omit para 4 from your TD in my Defence? Just curious.....

IN THE COUNTY COURT

Claim No: XXXXXXXXXXX

Between

PARKING CONTROL MANAGEMENT (UK) Ltd

(Claimant)

-and-

XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

(Defendant)

____________________

DEFENCE

1.     The parking charges referred to in this claim did not arise from any agreement of terms. The charge and the claim was an unexpected shock. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.  It is denied that any conduct by the driver was a breach of any prominent term and it is denied that this Claimant (understood to have a bare licence as managers) has standing to sue or form contracts in their own name. Liability is denied, whether or not the Claimant is claiming 'keeper liability', which is unclear from the Particulars.

2.     It is admitted that at all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper of vehicle registration mark XXXXX, however uses a second car day to day. The vehicle which is the subject of these proceedings was insured with xxxxxxxxxx with xxx named drivers permitted to use it. The Defendant was not the driver of the vehicle in question. It is admitted that on xxxxxxx the Defendant's vehicle was parked at xxxxxxxx and it is denied that the Defendant was the driver of the vehicle. The vehicle was parked in a visitor bay displaying a valid visitor permit. A ticket was issued on the windscreen, however the defendant presumed this was made in error as the defendant has lived at the address since 2017 and has parked both her vehicles in either her allocated or residential bay on numerous occasions. The defendant was unaware of any previous correspondence in relation to the parking charge as she has never received any letters.

3.     It is denied that the Defendant or lawful users of her vehicle were in breach of any parking conditions or were not permitted to park in circumstances where an express permission to park had been granted to the Defendant permitting the above-mentioned vehicle to be parked by the current occupier and tenant of XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, whose tenancy agreement permits the parking of vehicle(s) on land. The Defendant avers that there was an absolute entitlement to park deriving from the terms of the lease, which cannot be fettered by any alleged parking terms. The lease terms provide the right to park a vehicle in the relevant allocated bay, without limitation as to type of vehicle, ownership of vehicle, the user of the vehicle or the requirement to display a parking permit. A copy of the lease will be provided to the Court, together with witness evidence that prior permission to park had been given.

4.     The Defendant avers that the operator’s signs cannot (i) override the existing rights enjoyed by residents and their visitors and (ii) that parking easements cannot retrospectively and unilaterally be restricted where provided for within the lease. The Defendant will rely upon the judgments on appeal of HHJ Harris QC in Jopson v Homeguard Services Ltd (2016) and of Sir Christopher Slade in K-Sultana Saeed v Plustrade Ltd [2001] EWCA Civ 2011. The Court will be referred to further similar fact cases in the event that this matter proceeds to trial. Accordingly, it is denied that there was any agreement as between the Defendant or driver of the vehicle and the Claimant. It is denied there was any obligation (at all) to display a permit, and that the Claimant has suffered loss or damage or that there is a lawful basis to pursue a claim for loss.

5.     The Particulars of Claim do not give any reasons why the Claimant requires a payment other than it results from ‘breaching the terms of parking on the land’. Signage displayed at XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX are forbidding signs that cannot create a contract. In the cases of B4GF26K6 PCM (UK) v Mr B, B4GF27K3 PCM (UK) v Mr W and B4GF26K2 PCM (UK) v Ms L it was demonstrated that forbidding signage at residential parking spaces did not create a contract. Also, the defendant objects to Gladstones attempt at adding interest at 10.25% which is extortionate.

B789

Johnson2015 said:

I was always told to never name a driver or hint at anyone else who may drive the vehicle. "Is saying "this car is driven by defendants partner" a good idea?

Do you really have to ask whether "this car is driven by the defendant's partner" identifies the driver?

Johnson2015 said:
2.     It is admitted that at all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper of vehicle registration mark XXXXX, however uses a second car day to day. The vehicle which is the subject of these proceedings was insured with xxxxxxxxxx with xxx named drivers permitted to use it. The Defendant was not the driver of the vehicle in question. It is admitted that on xxxxxxx the Defendant's vehicle was parked at xxxxxxxx and it is denied that the Defendant was the driver of the vehicle. The vehicle was parked in a visitor bay displaying a valid visitor permit. A ticket was issued on the windscreen., hHowever, the defendant it was presumed this was made issued in error as the defendant has lived at the address since 2017 and has always parked both her vehicles in either her allocated or residential bay on numerous occasions. The defendant was unaware of any previous correspondence in relation to the parking charge as she has never received any letters.

There's quite a bit of repetition in #2. Not sure if you need to mention a second car at this stage, perhaps at WS stage if necessary. A few suggestions above^^^

Le_Kirk

Johnson2015 said:

2.     It is admitted that at all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper of vehicle registration mark XXXXX, however uses a second car day to day. The vehicle which is the subject of these proceedings was insured with xxxxxxxxxx with xxx named drivers permitted to use it. The Defendant was not the driver of the vehicle in question. It is admitted that on xxxxxxx the Defendant's vehicle was parked at xxxxxxxx and it is denied that the Defendant was the driver of the vehicle. The vehicle was parked in a visitor bay displaying a valid visitor permit. A ticket was issued on the windscreen, however the defendant presumed this was made in error as the defendant has lived at the address since 2017 and has parked both her vehicles the vehicle(s) have been parked in either her allocated or residential (visitor) bay on numerous occasions. The defendant was unaware of any previous correspondence in relation to the parking charge as she has never received any letters.

I would adjust as above, the way you have written it suggest you were the driver.  Is a residential bay different to a visitor bay as you have used differing terms?