HSBC has frozen all my accounts - high earner left penniless

grumbler

km1500 said:

I am hoping you would only get a fraud marker if you had committed fraud.

Unfortunately, 'innocent until proven guilty' principle doesn't work in banking world. It happens that one gets a marker and then has to jump through hoops to prove their innocence.

born_again

grumbler said:

MrFrugalFever said:

ent_moot said:

CC, when used well, are a great tool for managing cash flow, large transactions spending (offer S75 cover), and even perks/rewards, as well as in cases like this, offers an alternative method of expenditure for up to approximately two months. Have been using them for about 24 years, only paying minimal interest/fees when suited me, without affecting my debt condition.

This is all true; however, credit cards are fundamentally build upon exploiting those who are, for whatever reason, unable to manage their finances carefully. 

Let's suppose you have a mental breakdown or some type of personal crisis, and neglects to carefully manage your credit cards because, quite frankly, you've got bigger problems. All the money you've made/saved by using CC could be wiped out in a few months because of the exploitatively high interest rates. At your lowest point, you're doubly penalised. 

On principle, I think they're a dirty business that is made successful through the exploitation of common psychological blind spots. I've heard the argument of "well, if people can't manage them, then they should not use them"; however, I think this is like saying "problem gamblers should just not gamble if they can't do it responsibly".

The world would be a better place without credit cards. 

...no amount of complaining will alter the regulatory requirements HSBC will undertake

But it can, possibly, alter the speed of 'undertaking' and the time it takes as a result.

prowla said:

Whilst I can see where the bank has to do due diligence and provide appropriate protection, I don't think it justifies blocking well-established Direct Debit and Standing Orders on the account.

Neither it justifies blocking the entire balance instead of only a part of it that raises suspicions.

Give idiots unlimited power and, no doubt, they will abuse it. They will block everything they can and will drag their heels for as long time as they can.

It has to be the whole account. For all the bank knows, that one complaint or highlight may be the tip of the issue & the rest of the balance is also fraud.

Either way it's not the banks choice the regulator sets the rules. So complaints will not get anywhere, even to the regulator.

Bank receive big fines for missing fraud/AML breeches. 
So a banks action is hard & fast. Without warning, or the fraudsters have moved cash & long gone.

It will scare you if you knew exactly what bank staff have to report, or risk losing their jobs. None is done with malice, only what they are trained to do.

Imagine this.
Drugs baron lives in a big mortgaged house, has massive DD's & all the income & balance of the account are illegal funds. Do you think that the bank should carry on paying the DD's even though the whole lot is based on illegal gains?

Nebulous2

Alex9384 said:

km1500 said:

Never ever pay money into a stranger's account by bank transfer. If you must do it, don't do it from your 'main' account. The account you transfer to could be on a fraud or money laundering list (possible this is what happened to you).

Ditto don't let anyone transfer money to you.

So how do people buy and sell cars privately these days? Exchanging 10-15k of physical cash?

I don't often make high value private deals, but if I do it is in cash.  Last one was buying a caravan, paid a £500 deposit, then paid the rest in cash when I collected a few days later. 

Faster payments are guaranteed to arrive by the close of business the following day. The message when you make the payment says most of them arrive within two hours. As we know, in practice, most of them arrive more or less immediately.

Standing in someone's drive, putting through a payment for £9.5k, what happens if it doesn't arrive? 

You look at him and don't believe him. He looks at you and thinks you are pulling a fast one.

Do you get the caravan? Very little chance of that. What if he has your money and hasn't told you? Do you come back tomorrow? Call your bank and discover your account is frozen? 

Sitting down with piles of folding, and getting the customer to count it, has to be worth it............

Mr.Generous

Nebulous2 said:

Alex9384 said:

km1500 said:

Never ever pay money into a stranger's account by bank transfer. If you must do it, don't do it from your 'main' account. The account you transfer to could be on a fraud or money laundering list (possible this is what happened to you).

Ditto don't let anyone transfer money to you.

So how do people buy and sell cars privately these days? Exchanging 10-15k of physical cash?

I don't often make high value private deals, but if I do it is in cash.  Last one was buying a caravan, paid a £500 deposit, then paid the rest in cash when I collected a few days later. 

Faster payments are guaranteed to arrive by the close of business the following day. The message when you make the payment says most of them arrive within two hours. As we know, in practice, most of them arrive more or less immediately.

Standing in someone's drive, putting through a payment for £9.5k, what happens if it doesn't arrive? 

You look at him and don't believe him. He looks at you and thinks you are pulling a fast one.

Do you get the caravan? Very little chance of that. What if he has your money and hasn't told you? Do you come back tomorrow? Call your bank and discover your account is frozen? 

Sitting down with piles of folding, and getting the customer to count it, has to be worth it............

Good point.

ent_moot

I agree.

However, in my case, I had visited the family a week earlier, chatted and seen the kittens and children. It was clearly a very ordinary and pleasant family. 

Therefore, I had no problem leaving a £400 deposit, and the owner had no problem with me transferring the remaining £1000, even if it didn't arrive the day of collection

I suspect it wasn't one thing, in my case. HSBC has never been great at tech, and probably have a score-based algorithm that lacks any real smarts.  So I probably scored "points" for a number of things:


- having more than 30k in a current account
- having more than 50k across 2 accounts
- withdrawing a largish sum of cash (£400)
- transferring a largish sum of money (£1000) 
- not having mortgage or rent payments (because I've paid off my mortgage) - no doubt HSBC have not integrated their fraud system with their mortgage system, and don't factor in the fact that I had a mortgage with them that I fully paid off
- the fact that I don't ordinarily buy anything from anywhere other than Amazon or Ocado, and normally never more than £300
- not being premier 
- maybe the fact that I have 5 standing orders to my wife's monzo (one for each day of the week)

I probably hit some point threshold, and got added to the queue.

adamp87

ent_moot said:

I agree.

However, in my case, I had visited the family a week earlier, chatted and seen the kittens and children. It was clearly a very ordinary and pleasant family. 

Therefore, I had no problem leaving a £400 deposit, and the owner had no problem with me transferring the remaining £1000, even if it didn't arrive the day of collection

I suspect it wasn't one thing, in my case. HSBC has never been great at tech, and probably have a score-based algorithm that lacks any real smarts.  So I probably scored "points" for a number of things:


- having more than 30k in a current account
- having more than 50k across 2 accounts
- withdrawing a largish sum of cash (£400)
- transferring a largish sum of money (£1000) 
- not having mortgage or rent payments (because I've paid off my mortgage) - no doubt HSBC have not integrated their fraud system with their mortgage system, and don't factor in the fact that I had a mortgage with them that I fully paid off
- the fact that I don't ordinarily buy anything from anywhere other than Amazon or Ocado, and normally never more than £300
- not being premier 
- maybe the fact that I have 5 standing orders to my wife's monzo (one for each day of the week)

I probably hit some point threshold, and got added to the queue.

You are a bit concerned with your earnings/.‘ones in the account will be having an effect I don’t think that’s the case to be honest mate.

It seems more the £1000 transaction has been flagged to a new person. As so many people get scammed these days it’s probably a good thing. 

But have they paid the money to the person? (Did it process or have they stopped it?) ultimately thought you’ll just have to wait and see, hopefully won’t be long

km1500

there was a case (sorry can't find link) where a mother had transfered money (£100?) to her son at uni and got her account frozen.

Unknown to her, her son had fallen for money muling easy money temptation and his account was under investigation.

Happy smiling families with kittens are no guarantee ...!

grumbler

adamp87 said:

ent_moot said:

I agree.

However, in my case, I had visited the family a week earlier, chatted and seen the kittens and children. It was clearly a very ordinary and pleasant family. 

Therefore, I had no problem leaving a £400 deposit, and the owner had no problem with me transferring the remaining £1000, even if it didn't arrive the day of collection

I suspect it wasn't one thing, in my case. HSBC has never been great at tech, and probably have a score-based algorithm that lacks any real smarts.  So I probably scored "points" for a number of things:


- having more than 30k in a current account
- having more than 50k across 2 accounts
- withdrawing a largish sum of cash (£400)
- transferring a largish sum of money (£1000) 
- not having mortgage or rent payments (because I've paid off my mortgage) - no doubt HSBC have not integrated their fraud system with their mortgage system, and don't factor in the fact that I had a mortgage with them that I fully paid off
- the fact that I don't ordinarily buy anything from anywhere other than Amazon or Ocado, and normally never more than £300
- not being premier 
- maybe the fact that I have 5 standing orders to my wife's monzo (one for each day of the week)

I probably hit some point threshold, and got added to the queue.

It seems more the £1000 transaction has been flagged to a new person. As so many people get scammed these days it’s probably a good thing.

A good thing to freeze an account for days if not weeks/months and leave one without any money?!  You must be joking...

adamp87

grumbler said:

adamp87 said:

ent_moot said:

I agree.

However, in my case, I had visited the family a week earlier, chatted and seen the kittens and children. It was clearly a very ordinary and pleasant family. 

Therefore, I had no problem leaving a £400 deposit, and the owner had no problem with me transferring the remaining £1000, even if it didn't arrive the day of collection

I suspect it wasn't one thing, in my case. HSBC has never been great at tech, and probably have a score-based algorithm that lacks any real smarts.  So I probably scored "points" for a number of things:


- having more than 30k in a current account
- having more than 50k across 2 accounts
- withdrawing a largish sum of cash (£400)
- transferring a largish sum of money (£1000) 
- not having mortgage or rent payments (because I've paid off my mortgage) - no doubt HSBC have not integrated their fraud system with their mortgage system, and don't factor in the fact that I had a mortgage with them that I fully paid off
- the fact that I don't ordinarily buy anything from anywhere other than Amazon or Ocado, and normally never more than £300
- not being premier 
- maybe the fact that I have 5 standing orders to my wife's monzo (one for each day of the week)

I probably hit some point threshold, and got added to the queue.

It seems more the £1000 transaction has been flagged to a new person. As so many people get scammed these days it’s probably a good thing.

A good thing to freeze an account for days if not weeks/months and leave one without any money?!  You must be joking...

No that's not what I meant that came across wrong, I meant more the fact that they take action could prevent someone from being scammed. In this case evidently it's not a good thing..In this case I think HSBC should have just called OP if there was an issue to clarify. 

To be fair the issue may have nothing to do with the £1000 and be something else all together that OP is unaware of .

The fraud/laundering checks are difficult. I read a This Is Money post recently where a I think a pensioner had been scammed into being ££££"s of crypto that went elsewhere if i remember correctly.

The bank did conduct checks where they clarified that they were wanting to make the transaction, and to clarify the amount was correct. Each time (a few transactions I believe over time) they confirmed this. Eventually when it all came out the bank turned around and said but you clarified these transactions multiple times so we'd have no reason to think they were 'scams' and they may have refused a refund.

A different scenario as they didn't 'freeze' any money, but more a point of banks can't win either way in these situations it seems. They put harsher checks in, stops they are decried for going too far, they do something and a scam happens it's still their fault, and if they do nothing they are blamed regardless.

In the case for this thread, it seems very over the top to freeze the entire account (and one of these reasons advice is always to not have all money in one bank just in case) and they should surely allow withdrawals whilst they investigate for rent/food and such in the meantime at the very least. 

ent_moot

My accounts have now been frozen for one whole week (I discovered that my account was actually frozen on the 27th - earlier than I first thought). I have so far had zero response from HSBC - all I have received are automated responses. I have had warnings from:

• Council
• Amazon prime
• Ocado

For not receiving my regular direct debit payments. I expect a cascade of additional complaints from my utility providers.

I have opened a new bank account with Lloyds, and will be attempting to update all direct debits to this.