HSBC has frozen all my accounts - high earner left penniless

gt94sss2

ent_moot said:

hoc said:

Is this a bog standard account? A very high earner who tends to save more than most people, who has been a customer for 25 years and doesn't bank with anybody else should have at least premier if not a private banking account and not be subject to backlogs of the masses.

It's a bog standard account. As far as I know, you don't automatically get upgraded, regardless of how much you earn, or how long you've been a customer. If you're asking why I've not upgraded: simple, I see nothing attractive about the premier account. 

HSBC Premier offers:

1. An interest free overdraft.
2. Its a very good family insurance policy.
3. You also get better customer service; and 4. Better rewards/benefits on a HSBC Premier credit card... among other benefits

all for free.

From what you are saying above your cards were blocked not cancelled I assume. So after you called HSBC up they worked/unblocked rather then having to be replaced.

Note: depending on what triggered the fraud check - it may not be HSBC carrying out these checks but a government agency in which case, the timing is out of their control - but they are legally not allowed to give you more details.

dealyboy

... I was a consultant software engineer for many years in Computing (now retired).

I am sorry that you and your family are suffering as a consequence of this unforeseen event. When it is resolved you will understand the importance of following the first principles of SE ... to provide error detection and handling to prevent catastrophic failure. This applies to ERTS (embedded realtime systems) e.g. in aircraft and banking active/standby systems, as well as backup and recovery systems applicable to our own lives.

Time and again MSE'ers advise the precautionary approach, keep an emergency fund, invest according to your circumstances and risk tolerance.

With such a high income and high dependencies I hope you have learned the lessons of your specialism.

Remember risk = probability x impact.

ent_moot

eskbanker said:

ent_moot said:

I have had my current and savings account, totalling more than £50k, frozen for nearly a week now.

But less than 24 hours ago:

ent_moot said:

I'm into day two of HSBC freezing my current and savings accounts

ent_moot said:

I honestly feel violated.

It's like turning off someone's oxygen supply...

[...]

...I am a Distinguished Software Engineer...

If nothing else, all this sort of stuff will give the recipient a good laugh - I suppose everyone will have their own views about what constitutes an effective complaint, but exaggerating dates and ladling on all the gratuitous embellishment to pad it out seems unlikely to achieve anything that a simple factual and accurate complaint wouldn't.

No. I got the original date wrong. That was when my first payment failed; however, having spoken to the call center, they confirmed that it was actually frozen on the 27th.

So no, I did not exaggerate dates; I underestimated the original date.

Full marks for spotting the discrepancy, but I'm afraid you get a B- for jumping to a false conclusion. Sorry.

grumbler

I think it's time for our beloved regulator to oblige banks to give a warning to all people applying for an account.  Something like
Beware, we can freeze you account whenever we want to and without any warning. And we can keep it frozen for a as long as we want to. So, we advise you to open another account(s) with at least one other bank and keep a significant amount there for such emergencies.

ent_moot

>it would have been a more then worthy upgrade (again, why remaining on a standard account when you can have a better one for free?). 

Agreed. There's no reason not to upgrade. I'm pretty sure when I last looked (many years ago) there was a monthly fee, and so I deemed it not worth it. 

I'm not likely to stick with HSBC after this. 

dealyboy said:

... I was a consultant software engineer for many years in Computing (now retired).

I am sorry that you and your family are suffering as a consequence of this unforeseen event. When it is resolved you will understand the importance of following the first principles of SE ... to provide error detection and handling to prevent catastrophic failure. This applies to ERTS (embedded realtime systems) e.g. in aircraft and banking active/standby systems, as well as backup and recovery systems applicable to our own lives.

Time and again MSE'ers advise the precautionary approach, keep an emergency fund, invest according to your circumstances and risk tolerance.

With such a high income and high dependencies I hope you have learned the lessons of your specialism.

Remember risk = probability x impact.

Your points are largely irrelevant to this case. As I said, I'm not left penniless; but I could have been due to the fault of the bank. Yes, I embellished the title a little.

>>Time and again MSE'ers advise the precautionary approach, keep an emergency fund, invest according to your circumstances and risk tolerance.

Again, irrelevant. What you're talking about is strategic investments, and keeping an emergency fund. Both of which I do. The point is that this is an operational failing. Yes, I've embellished the impact a little; however, it is true that I feel violated, that it has caused significant unnecessary disruption, and a large amount of stress, especially as there are articles out there that say these things can take months to resolve and the bank point-blank refuses to give a timeline. 

>>With such a high income and high dependencies I hope you have learned the lessons of your specialism.

The main lesson I've learned is that HSBC is less competent than I gave them credit. It's not surprising that the UK loses >2 billion annually in fraud if HSBCs fraud detection is a general reflection of the industry. 

I suppose I should have been able to guess this, given the general trend for top Software Engineer to avoid banks because of their reputation for bureaucracy and unwieldy legacy systems.

ent_moot

grumbler said:

I think it's time for our beloved regulator to oblige banks to give a warning to all people applying for an account.  Something like
Beware, we can freeze you account whenever we want to and without any warning. And we can keep it frozen for a as long as we want to. So, we advise you to open another account(s) with at least one other bank and keep a significant amount there for such emergencies.

Amen. The banks actively encourage you to bank with only one bank, offering free "switch" services, and even paying incentives, provided you close your old bank account.

Robin9

@ent_moot    It is also not unknown for banks to have their IT glitches - remember TSB

I'm an OAP  with a SP and a modest company one - so I get the SP paid to one bank and the company one to another and my investment income to a third. Plenty of flexibility. 

Marchitiello

ent_moot said:

>it would have been a more then worthy upgrade (again, why remaining on a standard account when you can have a better one for free?). 

Agreed. There's no reason not to upgrade. I'm pretty sure when I last looked (many years ago) there was a monthly fee, and so I deemed it not worth it. 

I'm not likely to stick with HSBC after this. 

Again, all banks have done similar things for all type of customers, from Premier to basic accounts, and a they all hide behind the regulator /tipping off regulation (Lloyds, Barclays, Santander, NatWest/RBS and even some of the Fintech one like Starling and Monzo have been reported on here for similar account suspension). As per my original message and someone else contribution, it could well be that the family that sold you the kittens have been themselves investigated for “strange” transactions (may well all be linked to selling the pedigree litter) and thus their own bank has asked the banks where the funds originated from to also carry out investigations. In that Scenario, it would not have been even HSBC to initiate the investigation, but they would have been obliged to act upon the other bank request.

CC, when used well, are a great tool for managing cash flow, large transactions spending (offer S75 cover), and even perks/rewards, as well as in cases like this, offers an alternative method of expenditure for up to approximately two months. Have been using them for about 24 years, only paying minimal interest/fees when suited me, without affecting my debt condition.

ent_moot

CC, when used well, are a great tool for managing cash flow, large transactions spending (offer S75 cover), and even perks/rewards, as well as in cases like this, offers an alternative method of expenditure for up to approximately two months. Have been using them for about 24 years, only paying minimal interest/fees when suited me, without affecting my debt condition.

This is all true; however, credit cards are fundamentally build upon exploiting those who are, for whatever reason, unable to manage their finances carefully. 

Let's suppose you have a mental breakdown or some type of personal crisis, and neglects to carefully manage your credit cards because, quite frankly, you've got bigger problems. All the money you've made/saved by using CC could be wiped out in a few months because of the exploitatively high interest rates. At your lowest point, you're doubly penalised. 

On principle, I think they're a dirty business that is made successful through the exploitation of common psychological blind spots. I've heard the argument of "well, if people can't manage them, then they should not use them"; however, I think this is like saying "problem gamblers should just not gamble if they can't do it responsibly".

The world would be a better place without credit cards. 

wmb194

ent_moot said:

CC, when used well, are a great tool for managing cash flow, large transactions spending (offer S75 cover), and even perks/rewards, as well as in cases like this, offers an alternative method of expenditure for up to approximately two months. Have been using them for about 24 years, only paying minimal interest/fees when suited me, without affecting my debt condition.

This is all true; however, credit cards are fundamentally build upon exploiting those who are, for whatever reason, unable to manage their finances carefully. 

Let's suppose you have a mental breakdown or some type of personal crisis, and neglects to carefully manage your credit cards because, quite frankly, you've got bigger problems. All the money you've made/saved by using CC could be wiped out in a few months because of the exploitatively high interest rates. At your lowest point, you're doubly penalised. 

On principle, I think they're a dirty business that is made successful through the exploitation of common psychological blind spots. I've heard the argument of "well, if people can't manage them, then they should not use them"; however, I think this is like saying "problem gamblers should just not gamble if they can't do it responsibly".

The world would be a better place without credit cards. 

People have circumstances where they need short term credit and your personal crisis scenario is an edge case. Anyway, it's easy to manage them: just set it so the balance is repaid in full every month by direct debit.