SAR Request - No NTK UKPCC

Oakley2702

Hello everyone,

A friend of my wife's has recently received a Claim Form from UKPCC for a parking 'offence' that took place in Feb 2019. They came to me for help as my wife had told them of my experience of fighting tickets in the past.

They had unfortunately not kept any of the old documents or responses, etc. I've followed the newbie thread and done AOS on MCOL site, deadline being 23rd March. I also did the SAR request, which they replied to today and there's no NTK in the pack, the original 'ticket' is included though - I'm assuming therefore it was never originally sent and don't want to highlight this with them by asking about it. Can I therefore just make this my main point in the argument with them?

I found a couple of threads relating to the same site, this one: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6335916/claim-form-from-uk-parking-control-ltd/p7 being the best example so I know I'll have no trouble putting together a defence. 

Many thanks for all your help. 

KeithP

What is the Issue Date on the County Court Claim Form?

Upon what date did you file an Acknowledgment of Service?
The MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.

Not_A_Hope

Was the ‘original ticket’ a Notice to Driver placed on the windscreen or was your friend sent a Notice to Keeper / Parking Charge Notice once the PPC had obtained details from the DVLA.

If the PPC have missed sending you anything I am not sure how it helps you not to insist they send you a copy. I would give them a further short deadline (7 days) to send missing information so you have all the information necessary to defend in full. You particularly need to know whether the NTK was POFA compliant. Hopefully your friend hasn’t blabbed about who might have been driving in any appeal they may have made.

Coupon-mad

If this is UKPC using DCBLegal then copy & adapt the defence by @Johny86 by changing paragraph 3 to some fairly vague facts.

Has the victim Defendant ever appealed this PCN and admitted to driving?

Oakley2702

KeithP said:

What is the Issue Date on the County Court Claim Form?

Upon what date did you file an Acknowledgment of Service?
The MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.

Hi Keith, issue date was 20th February and I made the AOS, in their name, on 28th February. Would give me a deadline of 25th March but that's a Saturday so given myself a deadline of 23rd for safety.

Oakley2702

Not_A_Hope said:

Was the ‘original ticket’ a Notice to Driver placed on the windscreen or was your friend sent a Notice to Keeper / Parking Charge Notice once the PPC had obtained details from the DVLA.

If the PPC have missed sending you anything I am not sure how it helps you not to insist they send you a copy. I would give them a further short deadline (7 days) to send missing information so you have all the information necessary to defend in full. You particularly need to know whether the NTK was POFA compliant. Hopefully your friend hasn’t blabbed about who might have been driving in any appeal they may have made.

It was originally a windscreen ticket. There's no NTK in the SAR pack they've sent to my friend, so I should email them back specifically asking for the NTK or just any missing information in general?

Unfortunately they did originally appeal and stated 'I am appealing this ticket due to the lack of notice within the area of which I parked. The space I parked in was beside my gym so my own presumption is that it belonged to my gym. There are no signs around the area and on closer inspection there seems at one point there may have been markings on the road but they have long disappeared'. 

I didn't think this was too bad as in the linked case John also admitted being the driver as the time of day was very similar being roughly 1800 with poorly marked yellow hearts, I will attach a picture my friend included in their reply. 

EDIT: Picture added:

Umkomaas

It was originally a windscreen ticket. There's no NTK in the SAR pack they've sent to my friend, so I should email them back specifically asking for the NTK or just any missing information in general?

Unfortunately they did originally appeal and stated 'I am appealing this ticket due to the lack of notice within the area of which I parked.

No need for a NtK - driver has blown off their own toes.  Concentrate on other points of defence - as per the template defence announcement. 

Oakley2702

Umkomaas said:

It was originally a windscreen ticket. There's no NTK in the SAR pack they've sent to my friend, so I should email them back specifically asking for the NTK or just any missing information in general?

Unfortunately they did originally appeal and stated 'I am appealing this ticket due to the lack of notice within the area of which I parked.

No need for a NtK - driver has blown off their own toes.  Concentrate on other points of defence - as per the template defence announcement. 

I don't believe they've blown off their toes, as per the linked thread, it was decided to actually accept liability in that appeal...

Thanks though. 

Umkomaas

Oakley2702 said:

Umkomaas said:

It was originally a windscreen ticket. There's no NTK in the SAR pack they've sent to my friend, so I should email them back specifically asking for the NTK or just any missing information in general?

Unfortunately they did originally appeal and stated 'I am appealing this ticket due to the lack of notice within the area of which I parked.

No need for a NtK - driver has blown off their own toes.  Concentrate on other points of defence - as per the template defence announcement. 

I don't believe they've blown off their toes, as per the linked thread, it was decided to actually accept liability in that appeal...

Thanks though. 

The only reason for seeking a copy of a NtK is to check whether the PPC can hold the keeper liable under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4). Once a driver exposes their involvement as the driver, the opportunity to 'exploit' a no keeper liability loophole evaporates, no requirement on the PPC to issue a NtK. 

Oakley2702

Umkomaas said:

Oakley2702 said:

Umkomaas said:

It was originally a windscreen ticket. There's no NTK in the SAR pack they've sent to my friend, so I should email them back specifically asking for the NTK or just any missing information in general?

Unfortunately they did originally appeal and stated 'I am appealing this ticket due to the lack of notice within the area of which I parked.

No need for a NtK - driver has blown off their own toes.  Concentrate on other points of defence - as per the template defence announcement. 

I don't believe they've blown off their toes, as per the linked thread, it was decided to actually accept liability in that appeal...

Thanks though. 

The only reason for seeking a copy of a NtK is to check whether the PPC can hold the keeper liable under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4). Once a driver exposes their involvement as the driver, the opportunity to 'exploit' a no keeper liability loophole evaporates, no requirement on the PPC to issue a NtK. 

Ah okay, that makes sense. I will get to work on their defence and will post for critique. 

Thank you kindly. 

KeithP

Oakley2702 said:

KeithP said:

What is the Issue Date on the County Court Claim Form?

Upon what date did you file an Acknowledgment of Service?
The MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.

Hi Keith, issue date was 20th February and I made the AOS, in their name, on 28th February. Would give me a deadline of 25th March but that's a Saturday so given myself a deadline of 23rd for safety.

With a Claim Issue Date of 20th February, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 27th March 2023 to file your Defence.

That's over three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.