Issue with selling property which has two titles, one in the wrong name.

GDB2222

Fred2023 said:

I have given all my paperwork to solicitor but from what I recall I only have one plan and one title. From what I understand that the main part of the house is on one title and the small part of the bedroom that overhangs the footpath is on a second title. The map I have of the property which shows the boundary in red (and I which I put my signature on)includes the whole of the property i.e includes the part of the boundary that overhangs the footpath. So I don't have two plans.
This was some time ago, and yes perhaps some of it was down to me for this mistake (I don't know how as I just did what I thought was right at the time) but what I am more concerned about at the moment is how I resolve this.
If the female party who I bought the house from would just sign the form then all this matter can be sorted, but to this day she is not cooperating in the slightest.

I understand your frustration, but you raised this subject a few days ago, and you are no further advanced.

Of course, you are reluctant to get involved in litigation, as any sensible person would be, but a solicitor's letter might get things moving. Do you have an alternative plan? 

All the questions on this forum about titles and plans are a bit of a digression. Your buyer has said that they must have this second title transferred, and your solicitor agrees. So, you either do that, or you may end up selling to a cash buyer who doesn't care about the legal niceties, but wants a 30% discount. 

Fred2023

Yes I could go to land registry and get copies, but regardless of that I have been told the properties has two titles one of which is still in the previous owners names. My current buyers solicitors have advised the buyers not to proceed until both titles are in my names. So regardless of what part of the property makes up the titles, the issue remains that I need both titles in my name and need to find a way of doing this. The quickest way of doing this would be to get the previous owners to sign them over, the male party has done this but the female party (they are now divorced) is not making any contact despite me offering money to compensate their time. So any suggestions as to how I proceed.

user1977

Fred2023 said:

My current buyers solicitors have advised the buyers not to proceed until both titles are in my names.

Just because that happens to be their current advice (and I don't blame them, when the current proprietors appear to be contactable) doesn't necessarily mean there aren't other reasonable avenues to go down. Has your solicitor offered you any advice on that point i.e. would it actually be outrageous just to ask a buyer to take a view on it? As I said above, flying freeholds don't necessarily have to be removed.

propertyrental

Fred2023 said:

Yes I could go to land registry and get copies, but regardless of that I have been told the properties has two titles one of which is still in the previous owners names. My current buyers solicitors have advised the buyers not to proceed until both titles are in my names. 

Does not mean that advice might not change. Or your buyers may choose to ignore the advice. Or your next buyers might get different advice. So understanding the issue properly is worthwhile.

So regardless of what part of the property makes up the titles, the issue remains that I need both titles in my name and need to find a way of doing this. The quickest way of doing this would be to get the previous owners to sign them over, the male party has done this but the female party (they are now divorced) is not making any contact despite me offering money to compensate their time. So any suggestions as to how I proceed.

Already covered in the previous 3 pages. I doubt anyone now is going to suddenly present a magic new option.

TBagpuss

The suggestion was made earlier that if your current conveyancer is saying they aren't sure what to do to resolve this, that you speak to a different solicitor who does. You probably want a more experienced property lawyer and/or someone speacilising in litigation in this field. 

They may be able to send a strong letter to the woman who is ignoring you and then take things from there. 

One key issue is whether you contracted to buy the second title in the first place. So following the advice given to you to find who took over your previous solicitors files when they went out of business is good advice, although it's fairly common for solicitors to destroy files after 15 years so that may not help.

The litigation route would I suspect be to prove that the title should have been transferred to you - (the man who sold you the property would be particularly helpful here if there is anything from him confirming it was an error). In some circumstances it may be possible to get an order providing that the paperwork can be executed by someone else - a Judge or nominated solicitor , the only context I have come across this is where there is an order for a property to be sold as part of a divorce and one party is failing to cooperate, but I think that it could be used in any situation where a court order has been made for the property to be transferred.

However, it's likely to be a long and costly process to take to court so realistically, offering the woman who has been ignoring you a bit more money to sign the TR1 is probably the quickest, easiest and cheapest option.

GDB2222

The trouble is that offering a bit more money to someone who is ignoring you doesn’t really help. For a start, you don’t know what their problem is. It may be nothing to do with the money. Someone who has been offered £300 but wants £400 would normally say so, not just ignore the offer. 

Fred2023

propertyrental said:

Fred2023 said:

Yes I could go to land registry and get copies, but regardless of that I have been told the properties has two titles one of which is still in the previous owners names. My current buyers solicitors have advised the buyers not to proceed until both titles are in my names. 

Does not mean that advice might not change. Or your buyers may choose to ignore the advice. Or your next buyers might get different advice. So understanding the issue properly is worthwhile.

So regardless of what part of the property makes up the titles, the issue remains that I need both titles in my name and need to find a way of doing this. The quickest way of doing this would be to get the previous owners to sign them over, the male party has done this but the female party (they are now divorced) is not making any contact despite me offering money to compensate their time. So any suggestions as to how I proceed.

Already covered in the previous 3 pages. I doubt anyone now is going to suddenly present a magic new option.

"Does not mean that advice might not change. Or your buyers may choose to ignore the advice. Or your next buyers might get different advice. So understanding the issue properly is worthwhile."

I can't see how advice would change, the property has two titles regardless of what bits of the property make up these titles. Saying new buyers might get different advice, they might but that means putting the house back on the market and then potentially getting two months down the line and then having exactly the same issue.

"So understanding the issue properly is worthwhile"
The issue is that there are two titles, one of which is still in previous occupants names.

"Already covered in the previous 3 pages. I doubt anyone now is going to suddenly present a magic new option."

maybe I have not read it right but from reading the last 3 pages I cannot see any solutions offered which have not been tried. The only option I can see is potentially taking the female party to court, but for what exactly? Ideally I need to know that there is no other option before going down this route.
I have heard (don't know how true it is) that female is housebound, I don't know if that is through disability, health, mental health reasons, but if that is the case then would make court action harder?

I appreciate everyone's views and thank you for your help, but currently I am no further forward.
I would like to think somewhere out there, someone has been in exactly the same position and would love to hear how they got out of it.

I have now managed to make contact with the solicitor I used in 2007 and he states due to it being over 15years he has no paperwork and cannot help at all. (And he offers no advice at all, as to how to deal with this)

user1977

Fred2023 said:

propertyrental said:

Fred2023 said:

Yes I could go to land registry and get copies, but regardless of that I have been told the properties has two titles one of which is still in the previous owners names. My current buyers solicitors have advised the buyers not to proceed until both titles are in my names. 

Does not mean that advice might not change. Or your buyers may choose to ignore the advice. Or your next buyers might get different advice. So understanding the issue properly is worthwhile.

So regardless of what part of the property makes up the titles, the issue remains that I need both titles in my name and need to find a way of doing this. The quickest way of doing this would be to get the previous owners to sign them over, the male party has done this but the female party (they are now divorced) is not making any contact despite me offering money to compensate their time. So any suggestions as to how I proceed.

Already covered in the previous 3 pages. I doubt anyone now is going to suddenly present a magic new option.

maybe I have not read it right but from reading the last 3 pages I cannot see any solutions offered which have not been tried.

So (as I've already mentioned twice above) have you discussed with your solicitor how much of a problem the flying freehold actually is? Does this second title contain anything other than the land under the flying freehold? I don't think you've clarified that so far. As already suggested, posting the plans here would help everybody understand the position better.

The only option I can see is potentially taking the female party to court, but for what exactly? Ideally I need to know that there is no other option before going down this route.
I have heard (don't know how true it is) that female is housebound, I don't know if that is through disability, health, mental health reasons, but if that is the case then would make court action harder?

Not really, given that conducting legal action rarely involves having to leave the house, and I doubt it literally means it's impossible for her to go outside.

eddddy

I'm not sure that it should be a complete surprise that one of the sellers isn't responding.

I guess they've received a bunch of formal legal papers out of the blue, relating to house she sold 15 years ago, with a request to sign a legal transfer document, etc.  I don't think I'd necessarily sign that, without consulting a solicitor first.

In your position, I might try sending a nice, friendly, personal letter to the seller, explaining that there has been a terrible mix-up, and it's stopping you selling your house. And asking the seller if they want to talk to a solicitor about it, and offering to pay their solicitor's fee. 

propertyrental

Fred2023 said:

propertyrental said:

Fred2023 said:

Yes I could go to land registry and get copies, but regardless of that I have been told the properties has two titles one of which is still in the previous owners names. My current buyers solicitors have advised the buyers not to proceed until both titles are in my names. 

Does not mean that advice might not change. Or your buyers may choose to ignore the advice. Or your next buyers might get different advice. So understanding the issue properly is worthwhile.

So regardless of what part of the property makes up the titles, the issue remains that I need both titles in my name and need to find a way of doing this. The quickest way of doing this would be to get the previous owners to sign them over, the male party has done this but the female party (they are now divorced) is not making any contact despite me offering money to compensate their time. So any suggestions as to how I proceed.

Already covered in the previous 3 pages. I doubt anyone now is going to suddenly present a magic new option.

.......

"Already covered in the previous 3 pages. I doubt anyone now is going to suddenly present a magic new option."

maybe I have not read it right but from reading the last 3 pages I cannot see any solutions offered which have not been tried. The only option I can see is potentially taking the female party to court, but for what exactly? Ideally I need to know that there is no other option before going down this route.
I have heard (don't know how true it is) that female is housebound, I don't know if that is through disability, health, mental health reasons, but if that is the case then would make court action harder?

I never said there was a solution offered, only that a fair few people had responded, and made suggestions (many but not all of which you've tried (eg offering more money)..

This is not a magic site. 

As for court, (another option suggested that you've not yet tried), success would depend on the legal facts eg the wording in your sales contract that we don't know.

Being house-bound does not get one a free get-put-of-gaol card!