Issue with selling property which has two titles, one in the wrong name.

user1977

eddddy said:

GDB2222 said:

You have had advice from a couple of posters to get a more litigation-oriented solicitor involved. I think you have a case, as the couple promised to sell you the whole property, but have failed to deliver. Judges are not fools, and they will be on your side to sort out this practical problem. I think you will get your court order, and that pretty much automatically means you'll be awarded costs.

If the contract really did say that 2 titles would be transferred, but only 1 title was transferred, that sounds like serious negligence by the solicitors. But in that case, I guess the sellers might have a legal duty to help put things right.

Not just to "help" but an obligation to remedy their breach of contract from 2007.

But you're right, we don't know what exactly the OP contracted to buy.

eddddy

user1977 said:

Not just to "help" but an obligation to remedy their breach of contract from 2007.

But you're right, we don't know what exactly the OP contracted to buy.

Yep - and the OP's posts give the impression that the OP doesn't want to investigate what went wrong, so it's difficult to suggest what to do to put it right.

I don't really understand the process, and my comment was probably poorly worded, but I was also considering the possibility that everything was executed correctly according to the contract for 2 titles - but the OP's solicitor messed-up and/or omitted the Land Registry registration for the second title.  So presumably, no breach of contract by the seller.

(I know the OP's new solicitor has asked the sellers to sign a new TR1 - but could that be because the new solicitor was trying for an easy solution, rather than trying to untangle what happened 15 years ago?)



Plus - isn't there the issue of the 6 or 12 year time limit for breach of contract claims?

GDB2222

eddddy said:

GDB2222 said:

You have had advice from a couple of posters to get a more litigation-oriented solicitor involved. I think you have a case, as the couple promised to sell you the whole property, but have failed to deliver. Judges are not fools, and they will be on your side to sort out this practical problem. I think you will get your court order, and that pretty much automatically means you'll be awarded costs.

I might have missed something in the thread - but why are you thinking that the couple "promised to sell the OP the whole property". 

The OP hasn't confirmed that the contract said 2 titles would be transferred.

It's quite possible that the contract said that just one title was being transferred, and that one title has been transferred. (Because neither the sellers nor the OP realised that 2 titles need to be transferred.)  So the sellers have done nothing wrong legally.


If the contract really did say that 2 titles would be transferred, but only 1 title was transferred, that sounds like serious negligence by the solicitors. But in that case, I guess the sellers might have a legal duty to help put things right.

The vendors clearly intended to sell the whole house to the OP, not retaining a chunk of one bedroom for themselves. Furthermore, the husband has signed the transfer, indicating that he agrees. Any judge looking at the case will know what the fair outcome is, and that is 80% of the way to winning. 

 

loubel

I would agree. Even though it sounds like the contract did not mention this second title, as nobody involved appears to have realised it existed, the seller would have a hard time claiming that it was not everyone's intention to sell both at the same time given it is part of the house (this advice would've been very different had it been a path that was in question!).

Before going full legal on her I agree you need to approach more amicably. She is unlikely to sign without taking legal advice to check she should and you might need to offer to pay that to get it done.

 But,if she is not willing to sign then you might need to take legal action to try to force  this and that would be expensive and require you to obtain the original conveyancing file. It might be that you have grounds for complaint/claim against your solicitors if they should have realised that there were two titles (hard to say for sure but it sounds like there is reference to it on the title so they probably should have looked into that). But this will be complicated given they are no longer practising and with the time that has passed.

You are going to need a property litigation solicitor to help you.

GDB2222

I totally agree that speaking direct to the ex-wife is the sensible course - with a bunch of flowers, perhaps, as explained before. 

However, if that doesn't work, then litigation may be surprisingly cheap. If the reason the ex-wife doesn't reply is that she doesn't want to get involved, then she probably won't defend any proceedings, either. So, the OP can apply for a default judgement, which will be quite cheap. 

Besides that, there's nothing here for the ex-wife to defend. Her part ownership of part of the OP's bedroom is of no value to her. It has a nuisance value to the OP, and maybe she's hoping to cash in on that, but more likely she just doesn't want to get engaged. As there's no value to the ex-wife, she's not going to want to spend money defending any proceedings.

The point about litigating is that it gets a result. It may not be the result you want, but it stops things dragging on indefinitely. In this case, I'm pretty sure it will get the OP the result he wants.

Fred2023

Finally a bit of a breakthrough, I have obtained the address of the female party and thankfully she only lives some 25miles away so went direct to her house (I brought my wife so it did not appear intimidating and as a witness) and spoke to the female. She confirmed she had received all the messages but appears to have just stuck her head in the sand and ignored everything. She appeared quite amicable and after talking to her agreed to help. I then went into town and arranged with a solicitor to bring this female in and get the forms signed, the earliest appointment being this Wednesday. I have agreed to collect this female and a friend of hers and convey them to the solicitor and hopefully get this sorted. I will update.
In relation to the solicitor I used in 2007 they stopped practicing in 2009 and I have emailed them and they stated that all paperwork has been disposed of after 15yrs,so if I had to go to court I would have not of that paperwork to fall back on. I do not feel it is the females fault in holding back this title, but the solicitor for not doing the job correctly. I have to hold my hands up and say I am not totally savvy with all the conveyancing procedure and potentially missed something out in 2007, but it certainly was not intentional.
I will update when I get a result after Wednesday.

Fred2023

Got to her house (a 50 mile round trip for me) to take her to solicitor who was literally five minutes away to be met by a family member who states the female was ill in bed!!!!!
No amount of talking etc got me anywhere, I had money with me!! So maybe an hour of her time, picked up and dropped off and money given, and she simply did not want to do it. I was speaking with family member at the door and despite me asking never got to speak to female direct. I just cannot get my head around why she would do this, it was so frustrating. I have exhausted all avenues and it appears the only option is court? This could be months away now. I just don't understand it.

eddddy

Fred2023 said:

Got to her house (a 50 mile round trip for me) to take her to solicitor who was literally five minutes away to be met by a family member who states the female was ill in bed!!!!!
No amount of talking etc got me anywhere, I had money with me!! So maybe an hour of her time, picked up and dropped off and money given, and she simply did not want to do it. I was speaking with family member at the door and despite me asking never got to speak to female direct. I just cannot get my head around why she would do this, it was so frustrating. I have exhausted all avenues and it appears the only option is court? This could be months away now. I just don't understand it.

I imagine the lady is feeling intimidated by you, so doesn't want to talk to you.

You suggest taking the lady to court - what contract do you think she has breached and/or what law do you think she has broken?

You can't take people to court simply because they won't do what you want them to do.

loubel

While it would clearly have been better if she had let you know she was ill and unable to attend, I also feel that you turning up on her doorstep (albeit previously arranged) to physically take her to a solicitor is a bit much and you then trying to insist upon it when told it wasn't happening won't have endeared you to her.

Why couldn't she get herself to the solicitor 5 mins away? Is she elderly/infirm? Did you leave her the paperwork so that she can get the advice on it when she's feeling better?

Fred2023

She claims she does not get out much due to her swollen legs. There is absolutely no way she would go there herself. I have bent over backwards to help her and I was as nice as I could possibly be, I brought my wife to speak to her, so she would feel at ease. I really had to bite my tongue as I knew if she could get to the solicitor this would be the easiest option.  Believe me unless you have actually met the female, you would know what I am talking about when I say she just does not want to help.
I have found out you can lodge a court case for redemption, whereby the court will decide if there was a mistake somewhere by the solicitor, so you don't actually take the female to court but the case. If the judge rules in my favour though, the court costs go to the female, as she has been given every opportunity to sort this matter out of court, so yes I said it slightly wrong in my last post, I won't be actually taking the female to court. Again though, time and money for me, and not something I want to do but what else can I do.
Yes she has allthe paperwork with her to take to the solicitor and letters from my solicitor explaining what to do but clearly she has not done any of this.