Issue with selling property which has two titles, one in the wrong name.

user1977

Fred2023 said:

Re propertyrentals post about contacting the SRA I have looked and basically it states

You will not be able to make an application to the Compensation Fund if any of the following apply:

• Your loss is due to the solicitor’s negligence, unless the solicitor did not have insurance.

The solicitor I used in 2007 closed in 2009, so I have no idea now what insurance they had or how I go about claiming from it.

They'll probably have had "run-off" insurance for claims arising after they cease business, though I don't know how long that lasts for. The SRA ought to be able to advise you. Though bear in mind we don't know enough to be certain there was actually negligence (e.g. did they check with you the extent of the property you were buying?)

Fred2023

user1977 said:

Fred2023 said:

user1977 said:

Fred2023 said:

Hi user1977, you would think my solicitor must know a way around it and she is very experienced, but she informs me she does not know how to progress this, and this is as far as we get. I have tried to obtain other legal advice but when you ring them normally you get the secretary and so you explain the issue and ask for someone to call you back and they don't, so maybe other solicitors don't know either.

Propertyrental- yes I believe I have the purchase contract, depending exactly what you mean by this. Currently all the paperwork I have for purchase in 2007 is with my current solicitor. 

Is your solicitor saying her firm can't help you at all with your transaction and you'll need to go somewhere else? Sorting this out involves more work but really isn't rocket science.

The first question is whether you ever contracted to buy this additional land, and it was just omitted from the conveyancing process for some reason. 

Yes basically my solicitor is saying she does not know what to do, she does not know how to get the title transferred into my name as the previous owner is failing to sign.

I'd have thought a claim for adverse possession would be competent here?

But in any event, I thought you said the owners were merely asking for a (fairly modest) price, not refusing to sell? It's going to be quicker and simpler just to pay them rather than use other methods which take months and are likely to make your current sale fall through.

In relation to compensation, yes that would be nice but that can wait as it does not really solve the issue, what I am more concerned about is getting the title in my name so that I can sell the house. I would pay the two previous owners to get them to sign the necessary forms (not ideal but at least it solves the issue) but as they have blocked all messages on Facebook I have no way of getting hold of them. I understand that one of the parties is housebound so I am presuming just simply does not want to get involved, so where does that leave me?
To clarify I contacted the male party on Facebook, he told me they had since divorced. I have never made contact with female party. I gave male details of my solicitor and fair play to him, he has contacted solicitor and done what was asked of him. Female party has not done anything, but I need both signatures on the TR/1 form. Male is now not accepting messages on Facebook so it only my solicitor who has contact details and my solicitor informs me she has sent forms out to both parties but only the male has sent them back and female has not and is not replying to any communications.

Fred2023

My solicitor also suggested some form of indemnity policy for the new buyers, but their solicitor rejected that, as did buyers mortgage company

user1977

Fred2023 said:

user1977 said:

Fred2023 said:

user1977 said:

Fred2023 said:

Hi user1977, you would think my solicitor must know a way around it and she is very experienced, but she informs me she does not know how to progress this, and this is as far as we get. I have tried to obtain other legal advice but when you ring them normally you get the secretary and so you explain the issue and ask for someone to call you back and they don't, so maybe other solicitors don't know either.

Propertyrental- yes I believe I have the purchase contract, depending exactly what you mean by this. Currently all the paperwork I have for purchase in 2007 is with my current solicitor. 

Is your solicitor saying her firm can't help you at all with your transaction and you'll need to go somewhere else? Sorting this out involves more work but really isn't rocket science.

The first question is whether you ever contracted to buy this additional land, and it was just omitted from the conveyancing process for some reason. 

Yes basically my solicitor is saying she does not know what to do, she does not know how to get the title transferred into my name as the previous owner is failing to sign.

I'd have thought a claim for adverse possession would be competent here?

But in any event, I thought you said the owners were merely asking for a (fairly modest) price, not refusing to sell? It's going to be quicker and simpler just to pay them rather than use other methods which take months and are likely to make your current sale fall through.

In relation to compensation, yes that would be nice but that can wait as it does not really solve the issue, what I am more concerned about is getting the title in my name so that I can sell the house. I would pay the two previous owners to get them to sign the necessary forms (not ideal but at least it solves the issue) but as they have blocked all messages on Facebook I have no way of getting hold of them. I understand that one of the parties is housebound so I am presuming just simply does not want to get involved, so where does that leave me?
To clarify I contacted the male party on Facebook, he told me they had since divorced. I have never made contact with female party. I gave male details of my solicitor and fair play to him, he has contacted solicitor and done what was asked of him. Female party has not done anything, but I need both signatures on the TR/1 form. Male is now not accepting messages on Facebook so it only my solicitor who has contact details and my solicitor informs me she has sent forms out to both parties but only the male has sent them back and female has not and is not replying to any communications.

If your solicitor has contact details then so do you - ask your solicitor for a note of them. Nothing on your own file is confidential from you.

If the other party isn't replying, are you sure you have the correct details for her? You could try using a tracing agent if in doubt. Again, this is stuff which a solicitor ought to know about and be able to advise you on. Being "housebound" doesn't stop somebody signing a form.

propertyrental

Fred2023 said:

Re propertyrentals post about contacting the SRA I have looked and basically it states

You will not be able to make an application to the Compensation Fund if any of the following apply:

• Your loss is due to the solicitor’s negligence, unless the solicitor did not have insurance.

The solicitor I used in 2007 closed in 2009, so I have no idea now what insurance they had or how I go about claiming from it.

I did not refer you to the SRA regarding compensation. It was because the SRA will know which firm of solicitors took over the client list from the defunct firm. There is an established process for this. Once you know that you can contact them.

Fred2023 said:

....
Propertyrental- yes I believe I have the purchase contract, depending exactly what you mean by this. Currently all the paperwork I have for purchase in 2007 is with my current solicitor. 

What does the contract say you were contracting to buy? If it includes the Title for the Flying Freehold, then you have a legal case against the sellers for not transferring that to you on Completion.

If it does not, then, apart from the question of why you did not notice when you confirmed to your solicitor that the Title and Plan were correct, you will have to negotiate with the sellers.

Adverse Possession might be a possibility, but the registered owners (your sellers) might wellobject by he soundof it, leading to a protracted battle....

GDB2222

I would hire a solicitor that specialises in conveyancing-related litigation. 

He can write a strong letter to the two people explaining that you will have no option but to drag them through the courts to get the title transferred, which could have serious costs implications for them. In addition, if your present sale falls through, you may suffer a loss, for which you would hold them responsible.

  At the same time, he can reiterate your generous offer of £300 to sign the transfer, but say that this will be withdrawn after say two weeks.

Hopefully, given this stick and carrot, they will cave in and sign the transfer. If they don’t, I fear that you really will have to go to court, unfortunately.  

At the moment, I assume they are just being awkward,  perhaps hoping for more money, and perhaps even you have been caught up in the fallout from their relationship breakdown. But they have no real reason to get involved in heavy litigation, so hopefully they will see sense.

Fred2023

I could ask for the address details for both parties (particularly the female) but realistically I do not want to go down that route and be accused of harassing them if this ever goes to court. I am happy at this stage for all contact to be done through solicitor, then I cannot be accused of anything. As frustrating as it is I feel this may be the best route.
I understand that the contact details for the female were given to my solicitor by the male, so we can only assume they are correct. The couple have three children between them so at least one of the children I would like to think have contact with both parents and so have confirmed the address is correct. My solicitor also has the email address for the female. It is hard when like me I am stuck in the middle and have no contact, why can't people in this day and age just talk to each other!!!
I do not have papers to hand for when I purchased in 2007 (with current solicitor) but to be honest, naive as I may have been then, I was unaware properties have more than one title. I can recall checking the boundary in red (which included this flying freehold) and signing for that, I was totally unaware there was a separate title for that small bit. I have the title papers back saying the title is in my name and to keep this paper for when I sell the house, but again I was unaware the house had two titles so just took it as everything being correct and the solicitor had things right. I am no solicitor so that is why I paid for one at the time to check everything.
It appears then, that I may have to go through the courts but this is an extremely lengthy procedure and also very costly.

GDB2222

“It appears then, that I may have to go through the courts but this is an extremely lengthy procedure and also very costly.“

In practice, a lot of the time people will stop messing around when they get a solicitor’s letter threatening them with litigation. As you say it’s expensive to litigate, and they have nothing to gain by going to court. 

YoungBlueEyes

Just a thought - if you paid an amount of money for x+y and only actually own x, tell them you want the money back for y.  (I'm joking.) 

loubel

You say you approved the title plan which did show the flying freehold so does that mean you were sent two title plans?