Mortgage Valuation Loft Conversion - Vent/Panic!

Als156

I am feeling rather stressed right now! Found a lovely split level maisonette with its own private garden and off street parking. Upstairs is a spacious loft conversion/main bedroom. Everything was going swimmingly. Mortgage valuation booked. But now, valuation is saying that they can't complete the report until they have more information to confirm the loft conversion: 

The second bedroom is located in the roof space (2nd floor) which was converted when the building was converted to residential in around 2007.

 The Lease only appears to refer to the demise as the "First Floor Flat" with no reference to the second floor accommodation, checks will need to be made to confirm the demise and that all necessary permissions and consents were obtained for the loft conversion."

Thought this would be easy, ask the seller right? Sellers produced all the documents he can find but doesn't seem to have anything on the loft conversion planning permission. Seems he was a cash buyer so potentially not come up against this before. However, I am pretty certain it has changed hands before, so there should be planning permissions/regs somewhere. Someone must have flagged something at some point, right? I tried to do my own searches but to no success. 

Has this happened to anyone before? I'm sure there must be, upon review of the room it comes across as all up to code and safe (although I am not a surveyor). But if nothing can be proved, I will not be able to get this mortgage and this is the only lender that seems willing to lend me these amounts (single person mortgage). 

Gah! Anything I can do to help find it? Feel a tad helpless. 

Jonboy_1984

This looks to me to be more to do with the lease than building ref/planning permission.

To me it reads they are saying to confirm the lease actually includes the second floor and isn’t effectively squatting in the space. Or if the space isn’t covered in the original lease and lease plan to check any alterations after purchase were licensed (given permission) by the freeholder .

Als156

Jonboy_1984 said:

This looks to me to be more to do with the lease than building ref/planning permission.

To me it reads they are saying to confirm the lease actually includes the second floor and isn’t effectively squatting in the space. Or if the space isn’t covered in the original lease and lease plan to check any alterations after purchase were licensed (given permission) by the freeholder .

So it's a share of freehold/leasehold. So ideally need to find amendments to the lease plan. How would I find this?

user1977

You need to read the lease. Is there a reason why you're trying to do this yourself rather than your solicitor?

Jonboy_1984

Somewhere in the lease there is likely to be a description of the demise that should include comments about the floors but not the joists and the ceilings but not the joists etc etc. 

This section will hopefully clarify the rights over the attic space, but as mentioned this should be something your solicitor is checking for you against the floor plans from the estate agent.

(do bear in mind the solicitor never sees the property, so you need to very carefully check when they ask if the title plan matches the physical property, as they are guiding you through the legal side of the purchase not the physical condition which is buyer beware).

EssexHebridean

If there is a possibility that you might down the line need indemnity policies for lack of building regs (if it turns out that this is the issue) then you need to be incredibly careful where your investing here take you. Best suggestion I could make would be let your solicitor guide and inform you on this - as they will know how far enquiries in certain areas can go. (For example, if you have made direct contact with the planning department, you may well already have rendered the indemnity policy route a non-starter). 

theartfullodger

Usually the roof and roof space are not part of the lease.  So any loft conversion would usually still belong to freeholder, not flat leaseholder, yes even if leaseholder, yes even if leaseholder paid.

Freeholder my be a separate legal entity owned in equal shares by flat/maisonette owners.  That doesn't mean individual owners can go into loft ....

Check leasehold and freehold deeds, £3 each online, from gov UK land registry see what they say, for the maisonette.

GDB2222

However much you like the property, this is the seller’s problem to solve, not yours. At the moment, they only have half a flat to sell.

It’s good that the lenders are protecting you from a potentially catastrophic purchase.  

eddddy

Als156 said:

Sellers produced all the documents he can find but doesn't seem to have anything on the loft conversion planning permission. 

I'm sure there must be, upon review of the room it comes across as all up to code and safe (although I am not a surveyor). But if nothing can be proved, I will not be able to get this mortgage and this is the only lender that seems willing to lend me these amounts (single person mortgage). 

Just to emphasise, as others have said...

• This is nothing to do with planning permission
• This is nothing to do with building regulations
• This is nothing to do with safety

The real problem is that the seller doesn't appear to own the 2nd floor (the ex-roof space)

The seller can't sell you something that they don't own.

If you proceed, it looks like you might be buying just the first floor and not the second floor.

So the mortgage lender (and probably your solicitor) is saying to the seller "Please show some evidence that you own the 2nd floor".

Even if you found another mortgage lender, I doubt you want to buy just the first floor, and not the second floor.

Als156

user1977 said:

You need to read the lease. Is there a reason why you're trying to do this yourself rather than your solicitor?

No, I know that it should be with them, I just feel a tad useless/helpless!

EssexHebridean said:

If there is a possibility that you might down the line need indemnity policies for lack of building regs (if it turns out that this is the issue) then you need to be incredibly careful where your investing here take you. Best suggestion I could make would be let your solicitor guide and inform you on this - as they will know how far enquiries in certain areas can go. (For example, if you have made direct contact with the planning department, you may well already have rendered the indemnity policy route a non-starter). 

Don't worry I haven't except a search of the planning permissions on the council website!


It's a bit confusing as it's a share of the freehold with leasehold. The previous seller bought this place with the loft conversion already completed, however he was a cash buyer, so possibly it never came up? 
I wouldn't want to just buy the first floor, the reason we loved this place was the two spacious bedrooms (all other places the 2nd bedroom was tiny/box sized). 

Suppose this is the problem of getting too attached to a place. I am swinging constantly between being extremely stressed by the situation and knowing there's nothing I can personally do (something I am not a fan of haha) What I need is to leave it in the hands of the solicitors/sellers. There's 2 possible outcomes I see: 
1. Correct paperwork is located, valuation completed and we can move forward. 
2. Nothing is located and therefore the seller needs to sort either a change in the lease or regularisation of the planning or accept a greatly reduced offer for a 1 bed house (i think?)

GDB2222

Als156 said:

user1977 said:

You need to read the lease. Is there a reason why you're trying to do this yourself rather than your solicitor?

No, I know that it should be with them, I just feel a tad useless/helpless!

EssexHebridean said:

If there is a possibility that you might down the line need indemnity policies for lack of building regs (if it turns out that this is the issue) then you need to be incredibly careful where your investing here take you. Best suggestion I could make would be let your solicitor guide and inform you on this - as they will know how far enquiries in certain areas can go. (For example, if you have made direct contact with the planning department, you may well already have rendered the indemnity policy route a non-starter). 

Don't worry I haven't except a search of the planning permissions on the council website!


It's a bit confusing as it's a share of the freehold with leasehold. The previous seller bought this place with the loft conversion already completed, however he was a cash buyer, so possibly it never came up? 
I wouldn't want to just buy the first floor, the reason we loved this place was the two spacious bedrooms (all other places the 2nd bedroom was tiny/box sized). 

Suppose this is the problem of getting too attached to a place. I am swinging constantly between being extremely stressed by the situation and knowing there's nothing I can personally do (something I am not a fan of haha) What I need is to leave it in the hands of the solicitors/sellers. There's 2 possible outcomes I see: 
1. Correct paperwork is located, valuation completed and we can move forward. 
2. Nothing is located and therefore the seller needs to sort either a change in the lease or regularisation of the planning or accept a greatly reduced offer for a 1 bed house (i think?)

There is a third possibility, namely that the seller agrees to change the lease, but this takes many months, and you get fed up waiting, possibly having spent a shedload of money on fees in the meantime. 

The sensible course is to leave your offer open, but not to incur more costs until the seller has sorted out title to the top floor. At the same time, keep looking at other properties.