Mortgage Valuation Loft Conversion - Vent/Panic!

ThisIsWeird

It's a bit confusing as it's a share of the freehold with leasehold.

The flat will come with a share of the Freehold? Who owns the rest - the ground floor flat? So, the FH is shared by two properties? If so, then surely this is easily doable, unless I'm missing something; the two FH'ers can change this easily - they just agree to, and instruct a solicitor to change the deeds. Easy. Minimal cost.

If they agree :-)

I suspect there's a good chance that, as it stands, the owner of the GF flat is as entitled as the owner of the flat above to access and use that 'loft'. 

gwynlas

The second bedroom is located in the roof space (2nd floor) which was converted when the building was converted to residential in around 2007.

The fact that the building was converted to residential about 2007 could provide your answer if planning was submitted for change of use it should detail structural changes. This would include installation of staircase from the main floor of the flat and any installation of dormers plumbing etc.

ThisIsWeird

How many flats make up the unit, Als? And is the FH owned by a management co. set up by all the residents, each one a 'director' or shareholder? If so, this should be easy to sort.

But it's for the seller to do so.

Don't stress :-) Be pragmatic - it'll either be sorted, or it won't. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst - and that means walking away going "Phew!"

This issue is now fully in the open. If this turns out to be too messy to resolve easily for you, then the EA is legally bound to inform all other potential buyers of this problem, cash buyers or not. That should be quite an incentive for the vendor to sort it.

Als156

ThisIsWeird said:

How many flats make up the unit, Als? And is the FH owned by a management co. set up by all the residents, each one a 'director' or shareholder? If so, this should be easy to sort.

But it's for the seller to do so.

Don't stress :-) Be pragmatic - it'll either be sorted, or it won't. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst - and that means walking away going "Phew!"

This issue is now fully in the open. If this turns out to be too messy to resolve easily for you, then the EA is legally bound to inform all other potential buyers of this problem, cash buyers or not. That should be quite an incentive for the vendor to sort it.

So it’s 2 joined houses split into 4 maisonettes, each with their own separate entrance. I’ve been trying to see if the other top floor has a loft conversion but I can’t find a historical listing for it which would tell me. Each person is shareholder as far as I understand, each pay a service charge which goes into a central pot for issues across both buildings. 

Draft contracts only arrived at my solicitor on Friday so waiting to make sure I have all the exact details.

fingers crossed they can sort it! Starting to approach the idea in my mind of walking away if necessary as much as I love the place.

eddddy

ThisIsWeird said:

The flat will come with a share of the Freehold? Who owns the rest - the ground floor flat? So, the FH is shared by two properties? If so, then surely this is easily doable, unless I'm missing something; the two FH'ers can change this easily - they just agree to, and instruct a solicitor to change the deeds. Easy. Minimal cost.

A share of freehold doesn't necessarily make this easier.


It's all hypothetical - but a difficult downstairs neighbour, might be more difficult to deal with than a 3rd party business-like. 'professional' freeholder.

For example, the joint freeholder neighbour downstairs might think...

• "Ha, ha, ha - that oaf upstairs can't sell his flat because of the loft problem. There's no way I'm going to help him out with that after what he said to me last week! I want to watch him squirm!" 

• "Great news - that oaf upstairs can't sell his flat because of the loft problem. So I've got him over a barrel. So I'm going to bleed him for every penny I can get."

• "A bloke in the pub said I can get £150k for my share of the loft."

• "The bloke upstairs says I need to sign some documents so he can sell his flat. I couldn't understand what he was talking about, and I don't care about his flat sale. So I'm not signing any documents."

But on the other hand, I've also heard of joint-freeholders giving away loft space for free - because they thought it was the 'usual' thing to do, and/or they didn't know they had the right to be paid for their share.

ThisIsWeird

eddddy said:

ThisIsWeird said:

The flat will come with a share of the Freehold? Who owns the rest - the ground floor flat? So, the FH is shared by two properties? If so, then surely this is easily doable, unless I'm missing something; the two FH'ers can change this easily - they just agree to, and instruct a solicitor to change the deeds. Easy. Minimal cost.

A share of freehold doesn't necessarily make this easier.


It's all hypothetical - but a difficult downstairs neighbour, might be more difficult to deal with than a 3rd party business-like. 'professional' freeholder.

For example, the joint freeholder neighbour downstairs might think...

• "Ha, ha, ha - that oaf upstairs can't sell his flat because of the loft problem. There's no way I'm going to help him out with that after what he said to me last week! I want to watch him squirm!" 

• "Great news - that oaf upstairs can't sell his flat because of the loft problem. So I've got him over a barrel. So I'm going to bleed him for every penny I can get."

• "A bloke in the pub said I can get £150k for my share of the loft."

• "The bloke upstairs says I need to sign some documents so he can sell his flat. I couldn't understand what he was talking about, and I don't care about his flat sale. So I'm not signing any documents."

But on the other hand, I've also heard of joint-freeholders giving away loft space for free - because they thought it was the 'usual' thing to do, and/or they didn't know they had the right to be paid for their share.

Of course, and - as I said - if they agree to.

Such decisions are usually 'majority' tho', so hopefully one 'ole won't/can't scupper the plans.

If, on the other hand, there was a separate FH'er, one who possibly didn't even know 'their' building had been loft-converted, what are the chances of them being conciliatory when approached about this fait accompli, carried out without their permission? I could come up with a similar list of very likely comments. And similar levels of extortion  :-)

Als says it's 2 joined houses, split into 4 maisonettes - I'm assuming not 'each' - so that would be 4 properties. In which case it would take 2 other owners to scupper the vendor's request. Hopefully very unlikely.

ThisIsWeird

Als156 said:

Fingers crossed they can sort it! Starting to approach the idea in my mind of walking away if necessary as much as I love the place.

Good luck, Als. I think chances are it can/will be sorted out ok, but if it isn't, then my advice would be to walk away, and consider it a close escape.

Too big a gamble. You might very well 'get away' with it, or you might be well and truly stuffed by a fellow maisonette owner. At any time. What a thing to hang over you.

The vendor will surely want to sort this, if not for you, then any other buyer. I don't know how honourable this EA is, but they should be making other potential buyers aware of this issue as they enquire. Of course, the vendor could try relisting with a different agent (who will also almost certainly know, but might pretend not to...)

Als156

Thanks all for your comments! Been working with my solicitor (who has actually been fantastic!) and there's nothing concrete in the lease which could help us, so with our enquiries we have requested a deed of variation to specify the loft conversion, so that it covers first and second floor. And also..the £200 doubling ground rent which was new to me! The EA and the seller both indicated the ground rent was £0, so we're hoping that is because they aren't being expected to pay so we're requesting that it be removed from the lease. Now just hoping the lender will accept these changes to approve me and the freeholders agree so we can move forward...