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UKPC court claim

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Johny86
Johny86 Posts: 89 Forumite
First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
edited 16 February 2023 at 6:38AM in Parking tickets, fines & parking
Hello everyone 
I have received a court claim from County court business center yesterday for not paying a parking charge. The alleged offence took place on 23/10/2018 at Rom valley retail park Romford Essex. Upon entering the car park I noticed an ANPR camera but when returned I found a parking ticket stuck on to the windscreen. The reason for the parking charge was "Vehicle owner left site". My question is how can they even prove I left site. The car park located in a retail park and there are few shops and I could have been in one of them. Moving on I ignored the parking ticket, debt recovery letters and finally LBC. I need your expert advice on how to defend and how likely I am going to win in court? I do not own this vehicle anymore and it was scrapped in February 2022. Can they still chase me as a owner? Thank you so much guys in advance



«134567

Comments

  • Le_Kirk
    Le_Kirk Posts: 22,669 Forumite
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    edited 15 February 2023 at 6:11PM
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    You were the Registered Keeper at the date of the event and as such you are responsible; however, if you were not driving or at least you haven't admitted to being the driver in any appeal or communication AND providing the PCN is not POFA compliant, you have a good chance of defending this successfully in court.  Suggest you read the NEWBIE sticky second post (and FIFTH post for acronyms) and bring yourself up to speed, you at least need to do the AoS - there is a walk-through linked in the NEWBIE.
    As we can see the issue date of the N1 form, one of our regulars @KeithP will be along to give you some deadlines and links to the advice, including the template defence.
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 38,560 Forumite
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    Johny86 said:
    I do not own this vehicle anymore and it was scrapped in February 2022. Can they still chase me as a owner?
    Yes of course they can.

    With a Claim Issue Date of 9th February, you have until Tuesday 28th February to file an Acknowledgment of Service but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 
    To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

    Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Tuesday 14th March 2023 to file your Defence.
    That's nearly four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.
    To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.
    Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

    Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.
  • Johny86
    Johny86 Posts: 89 Forumite
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    Le_Kirk said:
    You were the Registered Keeper at the date of the event and as such you are responsible; however, if you were not driving or at least you haven't admitted to being the driver in any appeal or communication AND providing the PCN is not POFA compliant, you have a good chance of defending this successfully in court.  Suggest you read the NEWBIE sticky second post (and FIFTH post for acronyms) and bring yourself up to speed, you at least need to do the AoS - there is a walk-through linked in the NEWBIE.
    As we can see the issue date of the N1 form, one of our regulars @KeithP will be along to give you some deadlines and links to the advice, including the template defence.
    I haven't made any contact with UKPC or DBC legal ever. Please share the newbie sticky thread link. I can't find it sadly 
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,811 Forumite
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    how likely I am going to win in court?
    Highly unlikely you will win at court, because you're unlikely to ever get to a court hearing. Have a good read of the following thread which explains what a UKPC/DCB Legal claim outcome is likely to be. But make sure you go through all the phases on your journey through.

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6377263/dcb-legal-record-of-private-parking-court-claim-discontinuations/p1

    My question is how can they even prove I left site.
    Look at all the photos linked to this charge on their website. See what you can find there ... probably a few shots of your vehicle, but unlikely much else. We've not seen a 'leaving the site' get as far as a court hearing since 2012!  I don't think your case will restart a new wave.

    Basically they're chancing their arm on you capitulating and paying them off for a quiet life. It's a complete scam. Don't be scammed, sit up and fight, you'll succeed!
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • B789
    B789 Posts: 3,441 Forumite
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    edited 15 February 2023 at 8:24PM
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    Johny86 said:
    Le_Kirk said:
    You were the Registered Keeper at the date of the event and as such you are responsible; however, if you were not driving or at least you haven't admitted to being the driver in any appeal or communication AND providing the PCN is not POFA compliant, you have a good chance of defending this successfully in court.  Suggest you read the NEWBIE sticky second post (and FIFTH post for acronyms) and bring yourself up to speed, you at least need to do the AoS - there is a walk-through linked in the NEWBIE.
    As we can see the issue date of the N1 form, one of our regulars @KeithP will be along to give you some deadlines and links to the advice, including the template defence.
    I haven't made any contact with UKPC or DBC legal ever. Please share the newbie sticky thread link. I can't find it sadly 
    You are expected to help yourself when you request help from the forum regulars. The Newbies thread is near the top of this forum. As I have a bit of free time on my hands, I will assist you here.



    ...and to make it even easier: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/parking-tickets-fines-parking

    At least you are now in the right place to defend this claim. As mentioned, it is highly unlikely that this will ever proceed to a hearing. DCB Legal  have a reputation for "trying it on" with worthless claims in the hope that the victim will poop their pants when they receive a CCC and just pay up.

    They have already fecked up their PoC as they fail to mention in their claim that the "breach" of their terms was because the "vehicle owner left the site". They have absolutely no idea who the "vehicle owner" is. What if the driver was not the "vehicle owner"? Would that driver be liable? What if a passenger in the "vehicle" left the site? Would the "vehicle owner" still be liable?

    What about the boundary of the site? Is it marked as a site 
    boundary? Are there signs in place that are obvious and clearly state that by crossing that boundary, if you are a "vehicle owner" you are going to be invoiced for £100?

    Do you think that if I was running a car park and put up signs that stated "Any 'vehicle owner' observed picking their nose will be liable for a £100 fee" I had a prospect of getting paid? There is a remote chance that I may be paid if I were to chance upon one of the few gullible victims who panic and just pay up because they "believe" it is a "fine" and prefer to avoid any confrontation about it.

    Also, what evidence do you think they have that you left the car park? A photo of an empty car? Proves nothing.

    Anyway, there are many reasons this will never get to court s long as you follow the steps as advised above and read the Newbies thread which tells you about what you now need to do.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 135,061 Forumite
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    edited 15 February 2023 at 8:35PM
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    KeithP has provided a link and your deadline dates for your first two steps to beating this.

    They'll discontinue in the end, no hearing.

    My question is how can they even prove I left site?
    They can't - but I urge you to immediately remove what you posted about your daughter.

    You can't use retail parks like this...lesson learned?

    Edit your first post asap.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Johny86
    Johny86 Posts: 89 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
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    KeithP said:
    Johny86 said:
    I do not own this vehicle anymore and it was scrapped in February 2022. Can they still chase me as a owner?
    Yes of course they can.

    With a Claim Issue Date of 9th February, you have until Tuesday 28th February to file an Acknowledgment of Service but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 
    To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

    Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Tuesday 14th March 2023 to file your Defence.
    That's nearly four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.
    To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.
    Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

    Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.
    Thank you KeithP I will certainly follow your advice 
  • Johny86
    Johny86 Posts: 89 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Options
    Umkomaas said:
    how likely I am going to win in court?
    Highly unlikely you will win at court, because you're unlikely to ever get to a court hearing. Have a good read of the following thread which explains what a UKPC/DCB Legal claim outcome is likely to be. But make sure you go through all the phases on your journey through.

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6377263/dcb-legal-record-of-private-parking-court-claim-discontinuations/p1

    My question is how can they even prove I left site.
    Look at all the photos linked to this charge on their website. See what you can find there ... probably a few shots of your vehicle, but unlikely much else. We've not seen a 'leaving the site' get as far as a court hearing since 2012!  I don't think your case will restart a new wave.

    Basically they're chancing their arm on you capitulating and paying them off for a quiet life. It's a complete scam. Don't be scammed, sit up and fight, you'll succeed!
    Thank you Umkomaas for the courage
  • Boat_to_Bolivia
    Options
    KeithP has provided a link and your deadline dates for your first two steps to beating this.

    They'll discontinue in the end, no hearing.

    My question is how can they even prove I left site?
    They can't - but I urge you to immediately remove what you posted about your daughter.

    You can't use retail parks like this...lesson learned?

    Edit your first post asap.
    A reminder to edit your first post as CM advised. ASAP
  • Johny86
    Johny86 Posts: 89 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Options
    B789 said:
    Johny86 said:
    Le_Kirk said:
    You were the Registered Keeper at the date of the event and as such you are responsible; however, if you were not driving or at least you haven't admitted to being the driver in any appeal or communication AND providing the PCN is not POFA compliant, you have a good chance of defending this successfully in court.  Suggest you read the NEWBIE sticky second post (and FIFTH post for acronyms) and bring yourself up to speed, you at least need to do the AoS - there is a walk-through linked in the NEWBIE.
    As we can see the issue date of the N1 form, one of our regulars @KeithP will be along to give you some deadlines and links to the advice, including the template defence.
    I haven't made any contact with UKPC or DBC legal ever. Please share the newbie sticky thread link. I can't find it sadly 
    You are expected to help yourself when you request help from the forum regulars. The Newbies thread is near the top of this forum. As I have a bit of free time on my hands, I will assist you here.



    ...and to make it even easier: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/parking-tickets-fines-parking

    At least you are now in the right place to defend this claim. As mentioned, it is highly unlikely that this will ever proceed to a hearing. DCB Legal  have a reputation for "trying it on" with worthless claims in the hope that the victim will poop their pants when they receive a CCC and just pay up.

    They have already fecked up their PoC as they fail to mention in their claim that the "breach" of their terms was because the "vehicle owner left the site". They have absolutely no idea who the "vehicle owner" is. What if the driver was not the "vehicle owner"? Would that driver be liable? What if a passenger in the "vehicle" left the site? Would the "vehicle owner" still be liable?

    What about the boundary of the site? Is it marked as a site boundary? Are there signs in place that are obvious and clearly state that by crossing that boundary, if you are a "vehicle owner" you are going to be invoiced for £100?

    Do you think that if I was running a car park and put up signs that stated "Any 'vehicle owner' observed picking their nose will be liable for a £100 fee" I had a prospect of getting paid? There is a remote chance that I may be paid if I were to chance upon one of the few gullible victims who panic and just pay up because they "believe" it is a "fine" and prefer to avoid any confrontation about it.

    Also, what evidence do you think they have that you left the car park? A photo of an empty car? Proves nothing.

    Anyway, there are many reasons this will never get to court s long as you follow the steps as advised above and read the Newbies thread which tells you about what you now need to do.
    B789 said:
    Johny86 said:
    Le_Kirk said:
    You were the Registered Keeper at the date of the event and as such you are responsible; however, if you were not driving or at least you haven't admitted to being the driver in any appeal or communication AND providing the PCN is not POFA compliant, you have a good chance of defending this successfully in court.  Suggest you read the NEWBIE sticky second post (and FIFTH post for acronyms) and bring yourself up to speed, you at least need to do the AoS - there is a walk-through linked in the NEWBIE.
    As we can see the issue date of the N1 form, one of our regulars @KeithP will be along to give you some deadlines and links to the advice, including the template defence.
    I haven't made any contact with UKPC or DBC legal ever. Please share the newbie sticky thread link. I can't find it sadly 
    You are expected to help yourself when you request help from the forum regulars. The Newbies thread is near the top of this forum. As I have a bit of free time on my hands, I will assist you here.



    ...and to make it even easier: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/parking-tickets-fines-parking

    At least you are now in the right place to defend this claim. As mentioned, it is highly unlikely that this will ever proceed to a hearing. DCB Legal  have a reputation for "trying it on" with worthless claims in the hope that the victim will poop their pants when they receive a CCC and just pay up.

    They have already fecked up their PoC as they fail to mention in their claim that the "breach" of their terms was because the "vehicle owner left the site". They have absolutely no idea who the "vehicle owner" is. What if the driver was not the "vehicle owner"? Would that driver be liable? What if a passenger in the "vehicle" left the site? Would the "vehicle owner" still be liable?

    What about the boundary of the site? Is it marked as a site boundary? Are there signs in place that are obvious and clearly state that by crossing that boundary, if you are a "vehicle owner" you are going to be invoiced for £100?

    Do you think that if I was running a car park and put up signs that stated "Any 'vehicle owner' observed picking their nose will be liable for a £100 fee" I had a prospect of getting paid? There is a remote chance that I may be paid if I were to chance upon one of the few gullible victims who panic and just pay up because they "believe" it is a "fine" and prefer to avoid any confrontation about it.

    Also, what evidence do you think they have that you left the car park? A photo of an empty car? Proves nothing.

    Anyway, there are many reasons this will never get to court s long as you follow the steps as advised above and read the Newbies thread which tells you about what you now need to do.
    B789 said:
    Johny86 said:
    Le_Kirk said:
    You were the Registered Keeper at the date of the event and as such you are responsible; however, if you were not driving or at least you haven't admitted to being the driver in any appeal or communication AND providing the PCN is not POFA compliant, you have a good chance of defending this successfully in court.  Suggest you read the NEWBIE sticky second post (and FIFTH post for acronyms) and bring yourself up to speed, you at least need to do the AoS - there is a walk-through linked in the NEWBIE.
    As we can see the issue date of the N1 form, one of our regulars @KeithP will be along to give you some deadlines and links to the advice, including the template defence.
    I haven't made any contact with UKPC or DBC legal ever. Please share the newbie sticky thread link. I can't find it sadly 
    You are expected to help yourself when you request help from the forum regulars. The Newbies thread is near the top of this forum. As I have a bit of free time on my hands, I will assist you here.



    ...and to make it even easier: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/parking-tickets-fines-parking

    At least you are now in the right place to defend this claim. As mentioned, it is highly unlikely that this will ever proceed to a hearing. DCB Legal  have a reputation for "trying it on" with worthless claims in the hope that the victim will poop their pants when they receive a CCC and just pay up.

    They have already fecked up their PoC as they fail to mention in their claim that the "breach" of their terms was because the "vehicle owner left the site". They have absolutely no idea who the "vehicle owner" is. What if the driver was not the "vehicle owner"? Would that driver be liable? What if a passenger in the "vehicle" left the site? Would the "vehicle owner" still be liable?

    What about the boundary of the site? Is it marked as a site boundary? Are there signs in place that are obvious and clearly state that by crossing that boundary, if you are a "vehicle owner" you are going to be invoiced for £100?

    Do you think that if I was running a car park and put up signs that stated "Any 'vehicle owner' observed picking their nose will be liable for a £100 fee" I had a prospect of getting paid? There is a remote chance that I may be paid if I were to chance upon one of the few gullible victims who panic and just pay up because they "believe" it is a "fine" and prefer to avoid any confrontation about it.

    Also, what evidence do you think they have that you left the car park? A photo of an empty car? Proves nothing.

    Anyway, there are many reasons this will never get to court s long as you follow the steps as advised above and read the Newbies thread which tells you about what you now need to do.
    I really appreciate your effort and time thank you. I will certainly read the Newbies sticky thread and as others advised follow the step by step guide. 
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