Advice on Popla appeal One Parking Solutions

JassyDen

Hi, I've gone through the various posts and I think I understand the processes, but still have a question to help me decide if this is worth appealing. Any advice would be very gratefully received. 

I was issued with a ticket by post from One Parking Solution re. parking in Brighton Vantage Carpark. The ticket was issued because I paid for the parking after the 10min grace period. This happened because their ticket machine did not accept card payments, so I had to download their app and set up payment - which took a long time. I then paid for 7 hours of parking.

When I appealed, I asked for proof of when my payment was received - but they did not respond to this request. I checked my bank account and the payment out did not show until the following day. However just now checked the app and it shows the payment at 10.36am which is 18mins after my recorded arrival at 10.18
It doesn't look like my key reason (that the options for payment cannot be met within the 10mins grace) is one of those listed as valid for an appeal to POPLA? Also could the fact that they have not responded to my request for evidence work in my favour? I don't want to appeal if there is almost not chance of winning.

I have 5more days left to pay if I want to pay the lower rate, and would appreciate advice on this, thanks!

Fruitcake

Plan A is always a complaint to the landowner and your MP.

If that fails, it is always worth appealing to PoPLA, and the decision is not binding on the motorists anyway.
PoPLA codes last 32 days, so you have plenty of time to produce a draft appeal using all the points from the third post of the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES then post it here for checking before you submit it.

These will include at least, frustration of contract (not enough time to download app in order to pay).
Not the landowner
No standing to issue charges in their own name
Inadequate signage
BPA CoP breaches
Anything else relevant

None of the regulars will suggest paying the early lower amount, known on here as the mug's discount.

Coupon-mad

POPLA Codes last 33 days, not just 28.

You do not choose a 'reason' in the POPLA website and nor do you rely only on a single point appeal.  Paragraph 3 of the NEWBIES thread explains, and shows examples of PDF POPLA appeal documents.

Have you searched the forum for Vantage Point POPLA and found the ones I helped someone write a few years back? (I am local-ish, hence my Avatar pic!).

I recall a good one with photos showing the lack of entrance sign and general lack of signs telling drivers they are 'agreeing' to pay £100 for the app failure.

The grotty place has never changed - horrible dark little concrete monstrosity - and you really do not need to ever use Vantage Point to park in Brighton!  I don't.  Avoid it like the plague...that's why it's always half empty.

Did you realise the app (POPPAY) is actually OPS' own one?! Their invention.  Go figure why it might take so long to download, and why the machine doesn't accept card payments, eh?!

Or was it JustPark?

The Directors of OPS include ex-clampers after all.  That firm (and their previous company names) have been a pariah and a plague on consumers in Sussex according to articles over the years in the Argus.

ParkingMad

The owner of Vantage Point is a company called Periworld. 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02004643/charges

It might be worth emailing them to ask if they will cancel the PCN. 

@95Rollers has lots of info about this car park. Here is their thread-

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6264789/won-case-dismissed-by-ddj-one-parking-solution-vantage-point-brighton/p1

95Rollers

Hi I have only just seen this - 

I faced them in court last year and they lost for something similar which happened in early 2019 - whereI drove into VP, couldn't find a space so drove out and then returned a short while later after more searching for a parking space proved fruitless. I went back into VP and did find a space on my 2nd visit, where I parked up, read the wordy signs then on going to pay I experienced difficultly using the Machine which wouldn't accept my money!

I couldn't download the app due to a crap signal and having an older phone set probabl didn't help - we don't all own smartphones or have data plans (this certainly wasn't a condition of entry!). I even walked round to the office block to see if there was an attendant, but after all these attempts to pay I left frustrated and parked elsewhere thinking not more of it until a PCN, demands and threats followed.

I only engaged once it went to Court Proceedings as I knew they HAD NO CASE and I was right funnily enough despite OPS, DCBL, QDR lies and attempts at Gaslighting me otherwise. They were accusing me of Parking without Paying for 23 minutes - despite me telling them I had left and re-entered being there twice in this time and not even taking up 10 minutes on each time - even though the CONTRACT says 15 MINUTES.

The matter went to Luton County Court last year and the Judge agreed that I had acted "reasonably" as I had NOT PARKED, I had intent to pay, I had taken reasonable steps in doing so and that I shouldn't have to "PAY" nor was "breaching contract" as I did everything required - as soon as I couldn't pay I left. Why should I be penalised for their ineptitude?!? Which the judge agreed on - WAITING ISN'T PARKING nor is faffing around trying to fulfil their ineffective payment options! 

If you need any assistance - feel free to DM me and I will send you what I have.  The best course of action is 1st contacting Periworld, but don't hold your breath as they didn't really get back to me and when they did they fobbed me off, but don't rule it out as others have been sucessful. 

In terms of taking it to court they don't win many cases at Vantage Point - which you'll see from newspaper articles and posts on here. Sometimes they bottle it before the hearing as they did with someone else's on here. 

There is nothing on the signs saying about App Download Times - its basically an cash trap "run" by some ex clampers - they are FULLY AWARE of what goes on, but their raw greed stops them from rectifying or alerting the consumers of this. 

I would argue that as soon as you formed the intention to pay DOWNLOADED the app that was the start of your payment period, it takes near enough 10 minutes to read the sign.  You'd have to drive in, locate a space, manouver into the spaces (which are pretty narrow from memory - taking me about 6 point turn!), read the T&Cs as these cannot be read from a vehicle, then attempt to pay on the machine, then go and download the app, then wait for it to activate. It would be hard to argue "Breach of Contract" as you have done everything asked of you and actually paid - I gave up and left without making a payment and I still beat them in court, so your case is even less winnable for them.

Did you use their own "PopPay" app? 
https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/poppay/id1562985616?see-all=reviews

ParkingMad

If you have to provide your name, address and VRM to register for the PopPay app, can this information be used to issue a PCN, without needing to do a KADOE request?

95Rollers

ParkingMad said:

If you have to provide your name, address and VRM to register for the PopPay app, can this information be used to issue a PCN, without needing to do a KADOE request?

I wouldn't put it past them - the parking industry is full of such shady cheapskates I wouldn't be surprised if they bypassed the £2.50 DVLA keeper request.  Definitely worth pursuing this on your SAR and maybe doing a SAR with DVLA to find out if whether they've disclosed your details or not (if they have no record then it will be apparent they've used the App to obtain them!). 

Coupon-mad

I wouldn't put it past them either but the person who pays is not necessarily the driver.  They could assume it was but that's not always true.

I just assisted a keeper whose passenger put in her own VRM by mistake at an NCP car park.  I could have advised them to say so but that would have cost £20!  Killed it with no keeper liability.

But I am sure keying errors are very common.  Thank goodness the Govt decided all keying errors are to see cancellations under the appeals charter.

JassyDen

Thanks so much for this advice - I didn't realise I'd had any responses (as I'm not familiar with how the forum works and thought it would notify me). I'm going to have a go at fighting I'll let you know how it goes

Boat_to_Bolivia

@JassyDen go to your profile (top right) and click on Edit Profile. Then click on notification preferences where you can opt for email and/or pop up notifications when someone posts on your thread. HTH

95Rollers

@JassyDen - I have responded to your message. Here is a timed video recording of the OPS' sign at Vantage Point being read out aloud which in itself shows it nearly takes 10 minutes - when being blown up on a computer screen following the text with a mouse - than opposed to be squatting down squinting in or trying to read it in the dark!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PenKvC4seCs