Advice on Popla appeal One Parking Solutions

JassyDen

Thanks v much, deadline for Popla coming up and I haven't heard from the landlord so will get on with this

95Rollers

Just seen your email message and replied to it. I never bothered doing a POPLA, which in Retrospect I probably should have and would urge others to go through it.

Don't worry if you don't win as the Decision isn't legally binding or the motorist nor 100% independent either. If you win at POPLA its case over, if you don't you are not obliged to pay up as it as its not law!

 Many people lose at POPLA or fail to even bother with it and still win in court. 

JassyDen

Hi everyone, thanks for all the input. I have put my appeal in with POPLA and I now have to respond to what One Parking Solution has said. As the statement is apparenty just between me and them, this is not their statement but point that I'd appreciate advice on   - thanks! 

The appellant entered into a contractual agreement upon parking on site.

The terms are laid out on the signage on site and including at the entrance state that parking is permitted for vehicles displaying a valid PAY AND DISPLAY TICKET and/ or vehicles with a valid parking session in place that has been purchased via the POPPAY App. By parking or remaining on site otherwise than in accordance with the above the driver agrees to pay a parking charge. All motorists are provided with a consideration period to purchase a ticket as per the BPA code of practice.

The signs on site state: “All Pay & Display tickets and parking sessions must be purchased within 10 minutes of arrival on site.” An additional minute is included for enforcement purposes so a grace period of 11 minutes is allowed.

At the time of the contravention the appellant was not displaying a valid pay and display ticket, and nor did they have pre-authorisation to park their vehicle in the car park as they were not on the exemption list and therefore agreed to pay a parking charge. The Appellant states that the signage is poor on the site, the machine isn’t fit for purpose and there is poor mobile service to download and use the PopPay app.

They state that the landowner, Periworld, have requested that OPS should allow 15 minutes grace. We acknowledge the letter provided; however, it is also dated to be sent in 2019 and the name and address has been redacted so OPS cannot assume this was sent to the Appellant. As this letter was sent nearly 4 years ago, it is not reasonable to assume that statements in the letter have since changed, hence why our signage states that there is a 10 minute grace period. Regardless of if it was 10 minutes or 15 minutes, payment was not made until 18 minutes of being on the site so the Appellant has breached both options for the grace period.

The BPA Code of Practice 13.1 states: “The driver must have the chance to consider the Terms and Conditions before entering into the ‘parking contract’ with you. If, having had that opportunity, the driver decides not to park but chooses to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable consideration period to leave, before the driver can be bound by your parking contract. The amount of time in these instances will vary dependant on site size and type but it must be a minimum of 5 minutes.”

There were 76 payments made that day and of those 76, 14 were made using the Pay & Display machine which shows it was in working order that day.

The Appellant states that the 10 minute grace would normally mean that an additional 10 minutes is allowed beyond the time paid for. This doesn’t seem to make sense as the signs clearly state that all Pay & Display tickets and parking sessions must be purchased within 10 minutes of arrival of the site and they do not state that the 10 minutes if for after the payment has been made. The entrance sign to the site states that they must pay on arrival and to see the notices in the car park for full terms and conditions.

The Appellant states that drivers are not afforded an opportunity to learn of the terms to the site. This is clearly not the case, as we have stated prior, because every motorist is offered the same grace period to review the terms and conditions and if they were not agree or not be able to comply with these terms and conditions, then they can leave within the grace period and would not be in breach.

The Appellant states that no internal signs can be seen from outside the car park. This is because the car park is underground.

 The grace period is in both text and on a bullet point so that it is noticeable to the driver. It does not seem feasible that it would take the motorist 10 minutes to read the 3 bullet points on the BPA approved signage.

As stated before, the machine was clearly working on the day in question and there are PopPay signs on the site to make it clear to motorist’s that there are two options to make payment.

The Appellant states that they had to walk away in order to get signal which implies that they left site without payment.

The BPA Code of Practice 13.6 states: “Neither a consideration period or a grace period are periods of free parking and there is no requirement for you to offer an additional allowance on top of a consideration or grace period.”

If they had an issue with the app, they are welcome to contact the app developers to discuss this; however, as the majority of payments that day were made through the app, it seems to be an issue with the Appellant only.

It is the driver’s responsibility to ensure they are parked in accordance with the terms. If they are unable to do so they should either, make alternative parking arrangements or otherwise agree to pay a parking charge. If the driver is unsure, our number is on the boards and the signs are BPA approved. Not seeking keeper liability as the appellant is clearly the driver.

B789

You will be commenting on the PPCs claims above. Have they answered ALL the points in your POPLA appeal?

Maybe search the forums for similar cases of frustration of contract. You've already seen the post by @95Rollers where they didn't even bother with POPLA. Use their points to argue against the PPC. There's much more you can add.

However, even if you are unsuccessful at POPLA, so what? It is not binding and irrelevant if it ever goes to claim stage, which as you have read, is easily winnable in court.

95Rollers

I will email you later tonight Jassy once I'm on my laptop and had a proper chance to read and deconstruct it properly. 

Its a pretty laughable desperate and lame response as one would expect from OPS!

It's plagued with contradictions, wild assertions and just total utter nonsense and weasily gaslighting written by someone who thinks they are intelligent, but clearly has the IQ of a brick (minus  usefulness of one). 

 
We'll break this down later! 😉

ParkingMad

I'm not surprised you couldn't get a phone signal to download the app if you were in the underground part of the car park. I think there is one payment machine on each level and each level has its own entrance/exit. The levels are not connected to each other inside the car park, so in order to get a phone signal, surely you would have to go outdoors, out of the car park?

Did OPS include a photo of the sign? This is the version that was in place when payment was using the JustPark app, taken from this thread-

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6321913/ops-refusing-payment-plan/p2

Just above the black section it states 'All users of this car park must purchase a valid Pay and Display ticket and/or a valid parking session within 10 minutes of arrival on site.'

Here is another version of the sign used in OPS' witness statements which doesn't mention the 10 minute consideration period -


I don't know if the signs have been changed since OPS started using their own PopPay app.

In their POPLA reply, OPS seem to be confusing the 10 minute consideration period before parking (stated on the signs) with the 15 minute grace period (allowed by the landowner) after the expiry of a paid period of parking. But this same grace period is 11 minutes on the landowner contract! 

OPS have said 14 payments were made using the Pay and Display machine but haven't said which machine. There is one in the underground car park and one on the separate upper open-air level.

95Rollers

Typical OPS! They were saying I should have LEFT the top level carpark to pay for my parking downstairs in my case 😆 - even though there was no signs directing to or even indicating another paymen machine!!!  But if someone tries to do that or just move around the carpark to get a better signal they accuse them of "leaving the site without paying!  How can consumers keep track ot their ambiguous rules when these numpties are continually changing the terms and omitting facts to suit their own ends!  These!  🤡 clowns are like a broken record! 

Do their payment machines or Apps machines record failed payment attempts!?! They didn't in my case. Anyhow the app worked as the poster has record they'd paid! It was slow, maybe because they were underground- but are not "allowed" to leave the the carpark "without paying" even though they cannot pay inside the carpark due to a crap signal and mschine not taking your money (as in my case!). But your not "allowed" to leave without paying even though you are still in the grace period and you are only stepping outside to get better reception or walk to another part of their csrpsrk to use the other machine!? Desperate jokers!!! 🃏😅  good luck trying to get that one past a Judge !

Coupon-mad

They'll win at POPLA though.  The system is useless.  Certainly no paying OPS.

IMHO a horrible, aggressive firm and they are considered by many to be a pariah in Sussex.  I will be so happy if and when they finally get a DVLA ban one day.

Vantage Point is not a car park to ever use.

95Rollers

@JassyDen you got mail! 

Reinforcing what both CM and B798 said - POPLA isn't really worth the paper its printed on, its a bit of a kangaroo court to serve and favour BPA members, but to show that they are completely *biased* they have to let some people win on merit so the more you throw into it, the harder it is for one of their assistants to favour the PPC. I do know a couple of people who won theirs (thanks to this forum).  But not to worry if you don't as its Not Legally Binding or means anything. Many people who didn't win at POPLA win in court, and many people like me who didn't even bother at all with POPLA won their cases. But doesn't hurt to give it a go. The sooner the Govt step in and close down the ATAs and their "independent" appeals systems the better!

Coupon-mad

The ATAs (now APAs) won't be closed down.  They will still exist as Trade Bodies but won't be in charge of a Code, conformity, sanctions or appeals.