Offer under asking price

[Deleted User]

mi-key said:

A typical FTB will have at least a 15% deposit and can currently get a 5 year fix at 4.2%, most of us here who have had mortgages will think that's a pretty good deal!

4.2% might sound like a low interest rate but in the context of house prices today it is very expensive for many FTB. Based on your assumption most FTB have a 15% deposit that would be a payment of £1400 a month based on a mortgage of £255,000 which is £400 higher in comparison to 12 months ago. Factor in the cost of living crisis with all the lay offs happening I think you know which way the market is heading.

I bought my first house 16 years ago. The mortgage rate at the time was 6% and my monthly payments were just over £1100. The house was just a few thousand over the average price for that year. 

FTBs wages have increased a lot in 16 years. Yes it is more expensive to buy than it was 12 months ago, but it's not that much different than it has ever been considering the rates were unusually low then

No they haven't. Many people, especially FTBs, have seen wage stagnation for the last 13 years. It was only quite recently that average income caught back up to 2008 levels. What meagre increases were available have all be destroyed by inflation, and property price inflation is way, way beyond RPI.

TonyTeacake

RelievedSheff said:

TonyTeacake said:

MobileSaver said:

TonyTeacake said:

MobileSaver said:

TonyTeacake said:

MobileSaver said:

TonyTeacake said:

MobileSaver said:

TonyTeacake said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

mi-key said:

Readyto said:

Last year I offered 100k below asking price and sadly I lost on that house  

I wonder why Well unless you are talking about something in the millions !

Last year is a very different market, PropertyLog is full of 100k reductions, and not on million pound houses either, most people don`t know how to price correctly in my opinion.

I totally agree we are in a totally different market now but unfortunately, there are many sellers who still think they can achieve last year's prices.

Er, maybe that's because they can? A friend of mine put their house on the market almost a year ago and just completed last week at the same full asking price...

TonyTeacake said:

Some of the commentators on MSE have said you can get a mortgage rate of under 4%, but fail to mention you will only get this rate with a 33% deposit, this means most FTB are priced out of the market

A typical FTB will have at least a 15% deposit and can currently get a 5 year fix at 4.2%, most of us here who have had mortgages will think that's a pretty good deal!

Factor in the cost of living crisis with all the lay offs happening I think you know which way the market is heading.

The cost of living crisis is massively ever-egged in the context of the housing market; the people affected the most were never going to be in a position to buy a house anyway.

Obviously this is anecdotal but we've been out for lunch a few times in the last fortnight and the restaurants were literally packed.  We also went out for dinner one night last mid-week and while not packed the pub restaurant was very busy which I thought was impressive when food and drink for two came to £95.

Similarly a couple of weeks ago we shopped and had lunch in Merthyr Tydfil (hardly renowned for being a prosperous and vibrant Welsh town) and everywhere was teeming with people - I know it doesn't fit your utopia of doom and gloom leading to a house price crash but the fact of the matter is that a lot of people out there have a lot of spare cash and they don't mind spending it...

OMG you are so out of touch with the real world. Plenty of wealth where I live in Cheshire but this doesn't reflect the rest of the UK.

The "cost of living crisis" has been going on for well over a year yet 100,000 properties are still being bought and sold every single month in the UK... remind me again which one of us is so out of touch with the real world?

TonyTeacake said:

It seems to me you can't stand the fact house prices are falling.

How wrong you are. I've no plans to buy or sell property any time soon, it makes no difference to me whether prices rise or fall.

TonyTeacake said:

I remember you saying last year inflation will be a minor blip and the war in Ukraine won't last. ... How wrong you where

You are confusing me with another poster - I've never said either of those things. 

I would advise if you are going to post figures for house sales don't make figures up which can be misleading.
Like I said before house prices in the last few years have become out of touch for many people especially the younger generation.

My bad, I've edited my post to clarify that I obviously meant "on average" and did not mean that literally 100,000 and no more and no less properties are sold every month.

You say "house prices in the last few years have become out of touch for many people" and yet every year 1,000,000 people seem to buy and sell quite successfully and have been doing for years...

Looks like house sales have plummeted since last summer. Interest rate hikes and a cost of living crisis as I predicted are taking its toll on the housing market. Help to buy has finished and the money printers have been turned off. Anyone with a bit of common sense can see the market is in a downturn.  

Yet your earlier post indicated that there had been 77k sales in December which is clearly a large increase from the data shown for May 2022.

That is right as I couldn't find a full chart which shows the last few months. Still a big drop in sales since the covid peak.

So what is your point?

[Deleted User]

MobileSaver said:

TonyTeacake said:

MobileSaver said:

TonyTeacake said:

MobileSaver said:

TonyTeacake said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

mi-key said:

Readyto said:

Last year I offered 100k below asking price and sadly I lost on that house  

I wonder why Well unless you are talking about something in the millions !

Last year is a very different market, PropertyLog is full of 100k reductions, and not on million pound houses either, most people don`t know how to price correctly in my opinion.

I totally agree we are in a totally different market now but unfortunately, there are many sellers who still think they can achieve last year's prices.

Er, maybe that's because they can? A friend of mine put their house on the market almost a year ago and just completed last week at the same full asking price...

TonyTeacake said:

Some of the commentators on MSE have said you can get a mortgage rate of under 4%, but fail to mention you will only get this rate with a 33% deposit, this means most FTB are priced out of the market

A typical FTB will have at least a 15% deposit and can currently get a 5 year fix at 4.2%, most of us here who have had mortgages will think that's a pretty good deal!

Factor in the cost of living crisis with all the lay offs happening I think you know which way the market is heading.

The cost of living crisis is massively ever-egged in the context of the housing market; the people affected the most were never going to be in a position to buy a house anyway.

Obviously this is anecdotal but we've been out for lunch a few times in the last fortnight and the restaurants were literally packed.  We also went out for dinner one night last mid-week and while not packed the pub restaurant was very busy which I thought was impressive when food and drink for two came to £95.

Similarly a couple of weeks ago we shopped and had lunch in Merthyr Tydfil (hardly renowned for being a prosperous and vibrant Welsh town) and everywhere was teeming with people - I know it doesn't fit your utopia of doom and gloom leading to a house price crash but the fact of the matter is that a lot of people out there have a lot of spare cash and they don't mind spending it...

OMG you are so out of touch with the real world. Plenty of wealth where I live in Cheshire but this doesn't reflect the rest of the UK.

The "cost of living crisis" has been going on for well over a year yet on average 100,000 properties are still being bought and sold every single month in the UK... remind me again which one of us is so out of touch with the real world?

TonyTeacake said:

It seems to me you can't stand the fact house prices are falling.

How wrong you are. I've no plans to buy or sell property any time soon, it makes no difference to me whether prices rise or fall.

TonyTeacake said:

I remember you saying last year inflation will be a minor blip and the war in Ukraine won't last. ... How wrong you where

You are confusing me with another poster - I've never said either of those things. 

If you look at what is actually happening, a lot of former BTL landlords are selling up because costs are outstripping their ability to force rent increases.

A lot of them got into BTL because they found themselves having done quite well so they had the cash, and thought it was a nice way to platinum plate their already gold plated pensions.

It's kind of a good thing and we definitely needed to make BTL much less attractive, but this isn't the best way of achieving that.

RelievedSheff

TonyTeacake said:

RelievedSheff said:

TonyTeacake said:

MobileSaver said:

TonyTeacake said:

MobileSaver said:

TonyTeacake said:

MobileSaver said:

TonyTeacake said:

MobileSaver said:

TonyTeacake said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

mi-key said:

Readyto said:

Last year I offered 100k below asking price and sadly I lost on that house  

I wonder why Well unless you are talking about something in the millions !

Last year is a very different market, PropertyLog is full of 100k reductions, and not on million pound houses either, most people don`t know how to price correctly in my opinion.

I totally agree we are in a totally different market now but unfortunately, there are many sellers who still think they can achieve last year's prices.

Er, maybe that's because they can? A friend of mine put their house on the market almost a year ago and just completed last week at the same full asking price...

TonyTeacake said:

Some of the commentators on MSE have said you can get a mortgage rate of under 4%, but fail to mention you will only get this rate with a 33% deposit, this means most FTB are priced out of the market

A typical FTB will have at least a 15% deposit and can currently get a 5 year fix at 4.2%, most of us here who have had mortgages will think that's a pretty good deal!

Factor in the cost of living crisis with all the lay offs happening I think you know which way the market is heading.

The cost of living crisis is massively ever-egged in the context of the housing market; the people affected the most were never going to be in a position to buy a house anyway.

Obviously this is anecdotal but we've been out for lunch a few times in the last fortnight and the restaurants were literally packed.  We also went out for dinner one night last mid-week and while not packed the pub restaurant was very busy which I thought was impressive when food and drink for two came to £95.

Similarly a couple of weeks ago we shopped and had lunch in Merthyr Tydfil (hardly renowned for being a prosperous and vibrant Welsh town) and everywhere was teeming with people - I know it doesn't fit your utopia of doom and gloom leading to a house price crash but the fact of the matter is that a lot of people out there have a lot of spare cash and they don't mind spending it...

OMG you are so out of touch with the real world. Plenty of wealth where I live in Cheshire but this doesn't reflect the rest of the UK.

The "cost of living crisis" has been going on for well over a year yet 100,000 properties are still being bought and sold every single month in the UK... remind me again which one of us is so out of touch with the real world?

TonyTeacake said:

It seems to me you can't stand the fact house prices are falling.

How wrong you are. I've no plans to buy or sell property any time soon, it makes no difference to me whether prices rise or fall.

TonyTeacake said:

I remember you saying last year inflation will be a minor blip and the war in Ukraine won't last. ... How wrong you where

You are confusing me with another poster - I've never said either of those things. 

I would advise if you are going to post figures for house sales don't make figures up which can be misleading.
Like I said before house prices in the last few years have become out of touch for many people especially the younger generation.

My bad, I've edited my post to clarify that I obviously meant "on average" and did not mean that literally 100,000 and no more and no less properties are sold every month.

You say "house prices in the last few years have become out of touch for many people" and yet every year 1,000,000 people seem to buy and sell quite successfully and have been doing for years...

Looks like house sales have plummeted since last summer. Interest rate hikes and a cost of living crisis as I predicted are taking its toll on the housing market. Help to buy has finished and the money printers have been turned off. Anyone with a bit of common sense can see the market is in a downturn.  

Yet your earlier post indicated that there had been 77k sales in December which is clearly a large increase from the data shown for May 2022.

That is right as I couldn't find a full chart which shows the last few months. Still a big drop in sales since the covid peak.

So what is your point?

Last summer (i.e May 2022 on the chart) there were circa 55k sales. 

The data for the last month available December 2022 is circa 77k sales.

How can that equate to (and I quote from your post):

"Looks like house sales have plummeted since last summer. Interest rate hikes and a cost of living crisis as I predicted are taking its toll on the housing market"

Sales are up 22k over the month from last summer. That isn't plummeting!!

MobileSaver

[Deleted User] said:

MobileSaver said:

TonyTeacake said:

MobileSaver said:

TonyTeacake said:

MobileSaver said:

TonyTeacake said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

mi-key said:

Readyto said:

Last year I offered 100k below asking price and sadly I lost on that house  

I wonder why Well unless you are talking about something in the millions !

Last year is a very different market, PropertyLog is full of 100k reductions, and not on million pound houses either, most people don`t know how to price correctly in my opinion.

I totally agree we are in a totally different market now but unfortunately, there are many sellers who still think they can achieve last year's prices.

Er, maybe that's because they can? A friend of mine put their house on the market almost a year ago and just completed last week at the same full asking price...

TonyTeacake said:

Some of the commentators on MSE have said you can get a mortgage rate of under 4%, but fail to mention you will only get this rate with a 33% deposit, this means most FTB are priced out of the market

A typical FTB will have at least a 15% deposit and can currently get a 5 year fix at 4.2%, most of us here who have had mortgages will think that's a pretty good deal!

Factor in the cost of living crisis with all the lay offs happening I think you know which way the market is heading.

The cost of living crisis is massively ever-egged in the context of the housing market; the people affected the most were never going to be in a position to buy a house anyway.

Obviously this is anecdotal but we've been out for lunch a few times in the last fortnight and the restaurants were literally packed.  We also went out for dinner one night last mid-week and while not packed the pub restaurant was very busy which I thought was impressive when food and drink for two came to £95.

Similarly a couple of weeks ago we shopped and had lunch in Merthyr Tydfil (hardly renowned for being a prosperous and vibrant Welsh town) and everywhere was teeming with people - I know it doesn't fit your utopia of doom and gloom leading to a house price crash but the fact of the matter is that a lot of people out there have a lot of spare cash and they don't mind spending it...

OMG you are so out of touch with the real world. Plenty of wealth where I live in Cheshire but this doesn't reflect the rest of the UK.

The "cost of living crisis" has been going on for well over a year yet on average 100,000 properties are still being bought and sold every single month in the UK... remind me again which one of us is so out of touch with the real world?

TonyTeacake said:

It seems to me you can't stand the fact house prices are falling.

How wrong you are. I've no plans to buy or sell property any time soon, it makes no difference to me whether prices rise or fall.

If you look at what is actually happening, a lot of former BTL landlords are selling up because costs are outstripping their ability to force rent increases.

Agreed but a lot of those costs are short-sighted policy changes (stamp duty, mortgage interest relief and more onerous tenancy laws) from the government, the underlying fundamentals were fine until then even with interest rate increases.

[Deleted User] said:

It's kind of a good thing and we definitely needed to make BTL much less attractive, but this isn't the best way of achieving that.

People wanting to rent are already struggling, there are constant threads here bemoaning the lack of availability, higher rents and excessive hurdles before being accepted for a new tenancy.

Unless there was a public housing alternative already in place (which there isn't) then why would you want to make the private sector even more unattractive? Or do you not care about renters suffering even more if it means you can buy your next house a little cheaper?

jimbog

RelievedSheff said:

TonyTeacake said:

RelievedSheff said:

TonyTeacake said:

MobileSaver said:

TonyTeacake said:

MobileSaver said:

TonyTeacake said:

MobileSaver said:

TonyTeacake said:

MobileSaver said:

TonyTeacake said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

mi-key said:

Readyto said:

Last year I offered 100k below asking price and sadly I lost on that house  

I wonder why Well unless you are talking about something in the millions !

Last year is a very different market, PropertyLog is full of 100k reductions, and not on million pound houses either, most people don`t know how to price correctly in my opinion.

I totally agree we are in a totally different market now but unfortunately, there are many sellers who still think they can achieve last year's prices.

Er, maybe that's because they can? A friend of mine put their house on the market almost a year ago and just completed last week at the same full asking price...

TonyTeacake said:

Some of the commentators on MSE have said you can get a mortgage rate of under 4%, but fail to mention you will only get this rate with a 33% deposit, this means most FTB are priced out of the market

A typical FTB will have at least a 15% deposit and can currently get a 5 year fix at 4.2%, most of us here who have had mortgages will think that's a pretty good deal!

Factor in the cost of living crisis with all the lay offs happening I think you know which way the market is heading.

The cost of living crisis is massively ever-egged in the context of the housing market; the people affected the most were never going to be in a position to buy a house anyway.

Obviously this is anecdotal but we've been out for lunch a few times in the last fortnight and the restaurants were literally packed.  We also went out for dinner one night last mid-week and while not packed the pub restaurant was very busy which I thought was impressive when food and drink for two came to £95.

Similarly a couple of weeks ago we shopped and had lunch in Merthyr Tydfil (hardly renowned for being a prosperous and vibrant Welsh town) and everywhere was teeming with people - I know it doesn't fit your utopia of doom and gloom leading to a house price crash but the fact of the matter is that a lot of people out there have a lot of spare cash and they don't mind spending it...

OMG you are so out of touch with the real world. Plenty of wealth where I live in Cheshire but this doesn't reflect the rest of the UK.

The "cost of living crisis" has been going on for well over a year yet 100,000 properties are still being bought and sold every single month in the UK... remind me again which one of us is so out of touch with the real world?

TonyTeacake said:

It seems to me you can't stand the fact house prices are falling.

How wrong you are. I've no plans to buy or sell property any time soon, it makes no difference to me whether prices rise or fall.

TonyTeacake said:

I remember you saying last year inflation will be a minor blip and the war in Ukraine won't last. ... How wrong you where

You are confusing me with another poster - I've never said either of those things. 

I would advise if you are going to post figures for house sales don't make figures up which can be misleading.
Like I said before house prices in the last few years have become out of touch for many people especially the younger generation.

My bad, I've edited my post to clarify that I obviously meant "on average" and did not mean that literally 100,000 and no more and no less properties are sold every month.

You say "house prices in the last few years have become out of touch for many people" and yet every year 1,000,000 people seem to buy and sell quite successfully and have been doing for years...

Looks like house sales have plummeted since last summer. Interest rate hikes and a cost of living crisis as I predicted are taking its toll on the housing market. Help to buy has finished and the money printers have been turned off. Anyone with a bit of common sense can see the market is in a downturn.  

Yet your earlier post indicated that there had been 77k sales in December which is clearly a large increase from the data shown for May 2022.

That is right as I couldn't find a full chart which shows the last few months. Still a big drop in sales since the covid peak.

So what is your point?

Sales are up 22k over the month from last summer. That isn't plummeting!!

That's not an insignificant figure and reflects with what I'm seeing locally

RelievedSheff

TonyTeacake said:

May 2022 over 150,000 transactions, Around June 2022 down to around 120,000 and January now under 80,000.
You may be able to pull the wool over some people's eyes but you can't do this with me.  

For most areas, we are now in a buyer's market, funny how quickly things can turn around. 

You are looking at May 2021 which was the catch up after the Covid shutdowns.

May 2022 clearly shows around 55k transactions.

Not pulling the wool over anyone's eyes. Just reading your linked graph correctly.

Unlike you it would seem.

YoungBlueEyes

linda.b_4 said:

Hi.  Not much to report as viewing on other property isn’t until Wednesday.
that one is a 4 bed detached on at 245k.  Will update on how it goes and whether it’s worth offering on.  Thanks.

Anyway, did you get a viewing of the other property @linda.b_4? How did it go?

mi-key

TonyTeacake said:

mi-key said:

Like I've said in the past I deal with many businesses and I see this first hand that many are seeing profits down and I've seen them cutting staff as running costs are so high. I warned you last year this was coming and it's only going to get worse.

It seems to me you can't stand the fact house prices are falling. Inflation is still at 10.1% which still means the cost of goods and services are still going up by at least 10.1%. Energy support for business's is finishing in April so this will only accelerate more businesses closing.

I remember you saying last year inflation will be a minor blip and the war in Ukraine won't last. Look where we are now inflation is still rampant and Putin's fingers are getting close to that button.
How wrong you where 🤣

Thankfully it is predicted that energy prices will drop to pre Putin levels by July - in fact lower than the current price cap, so that should go some way to making it easier for businesses.

Inflation has also dropped 1% since its high in October, and has dropped each month since then.

At least things are moving in the right direction, and it is predicted we won't go into recession either this year. 

Coincidentally Rightmove reported a very slight increase in sold prices for January.

Crashy must be kicking himself...

You failed to mention one very important piece of information.

From April 2023 the cap is set to rise from £2,500 a year for the average family to £3,000.

Please post all the facts and not just the bits you want people to hear, this would give a much clearer view of what is really going on.

Also seen has you have all these stats to hand please tell me what where the increases in January ACCORDING to Rightmove?

Predictions are the average bill will be around £2100 - £2200 depending on where you read the report :

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/jan/19/uk-energy-bills-to-fall-from-july-wholesale-gas-costs-drop

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1737074/Energy-bills-forecast-decrease-Price-Guarantee

Sarah1Mitty2

MobileSaver said:

TonyTeacake said:

MobileSaver said:

TonyTeacake said:

MobileSaver said:

TonyTeacake said:

Sarah1Mitty2 said:

mi-key said:

Readyto said:

Last year I offered 100k below asking price and sadly I lost on that house  

I wonder why Well unless you are talking about something in the millions !

Last year is a very different market, PropertyLog is full of 100k reductions, and not on million pound houses either, most people don`t know how to price correctly in my opinion.

I totally agree we are in a totally different market now but unfortunately, there are many sellers who still think they can achieve last year's prices.

Er, maybe that's because they can? A friend of mine put their house on the market almost a year ago and just completed last week at the same full asking price...

TonyTeacake said:

Some of the commentators on MSE have said you can get a mortgage rate of under 4%, but fail to mention you will only get this rate with a 33% deposit, this means most FTB are priced out of the market

A typical FTB will have at least a 15% deposit and can currently get a 5 year fix at 4.2%, most of us here who have had mortgages will think that's a pretty good deal!

Factor in the cost of living crisis with all the lay offs happening I think you know which way the market is heading.

The cost of living crisis is massively ever-egged in the context of the housing market; the people affected the most were never going to be in a position to buy a house anyway.

Obviously this is anecdotal but we've been out for lunch a few times in the last fortnight and the restaurants were literally packed.  We also went out for dinner one night last mid-week and while not packed the pub restaurant was very busy which I thought was impressive when food and drink for two came to £95.

Similarly a couple of weeks ago we shopped and had lunch in Merthyr Tydfil (hardly renowned for being a prosperous and vibrant Welsh town) and everywhere was teeming with people - I know it doesn't fit your utopia of doom and gloom leading to a house price crash but the fact of the matter is that a lot of people out there have a lot of spare cash and they don't mind spending it...

OMG you are so out of touch with the real world. Plenty of wealth where I live in Cheshire but this doesn't reflect the rest of the UK.

The "cost of living crisis" has been going on for well over a year yet on average 100,000 properties are still being bought and sold every single month in the UK... remind me again which one of us is so out of touch with the real world?

TonyTeacake said:

It seems to me you can't stand the fact house prices are falling.

How wrong you are. I've no plans to buy or sell property any time soon, it makes no difference to me whether prices rise or fall.

TonyTeacake said:

I remember you saying last year inflation will be a minor blip and the war in Ukraine won't last. ... How wrong you where

You are confusing me with another poster - I've never said either of those things. 

The 100k figure is well out of date now, and as the thread is about offering under asking, and you went in 40% under asking I assume you fully encourage the OP to do the same, not necessarily at such a high % though?