Cap on standing charges

jinman

I have just come to the end of my fixed rate with So Energy and they have put me onto a variable rate, as there are currently no fixed rates.  (I believe there aren't really any fixed rates around at the moment.)  They sent me a list of the new rates and the standing charge for electricity is 43.25p per day.  When I looked on the MSE website I understood that the cap for this rate in London was 33.16p per day.  When I queried the rate with So, they directed me to the government page on the Energy Price Guarantee, saying that the cap was 46p per day.  I looked at the site and found a paragraph which said that this was the average price but could find no different amounts for different areas.  Are So allowed to charge Londoners 43.25p per day?

diystarter7

jinman said:

I have just come to the end of my fixed rate with So Energy and they have put me onto a variable rate, as there are currently no fixed rates.  (I believe there aren't really any fixed rates around at the moment.)  They sent me a list of the new rates and the standing charge for electricity is 43.25p per day.  When I looked on the MSE website I understood that the cap for this rate in London was 33.16p per day.  When I queried the rate with So, they directed me to the government page on the Energy Price Guarantee, saying that the cap was 46p per day.  I looked at the site and found a paragraph which said that this was the average price but could find no different amounts for different areas.  Are So allowed to charge Londoners 43.25p per day?

Hi

From the horses mouth - easy read

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/check-if-energy-price-cap-affects-you


Take care

Spoonie_Turtle

jinman said:

I have just come to the end of my fixed rate with So Energy and they have put me onto a variable rate, as there are currently no fixed rates.  (I believe there aren't really any fixed rates around at the moment.)  They sent me a list of the new rates and the standing charge for electricity is 43.25p per day.  When I looked on the MSE website I understood that the cap for this rate in London was 33.16p per day.  When I queried the rate with So, they directed me to the government page on the Energy Price Guarantee, saying that the cap was 46p per day.  I looked at the site and found a paragraph which said that this was the average price but could find no different amounts for different areas.  Are So allowed to charge Londoners 43.25p per day?

Do you pay by Direct Debit?  If not, the standing charge can be different.

Gerry1

The OP is correct: the cap for the daily standing charge for electricity in the London area paid by DD is 33.16p.

MattMattMattUK

There is the price cap standing charge which then has a EPG discount applied on top. The 43.25p (around 46p on average) rate is the price cap to which the EPG discount is then applied bringing it down to the 33p figure.

bristolleedsfan

MattMattMattUK said:

There is the price cap standing charge which then has a EPG discount applied on top. The 43.25p (around 46p on average) rate is the price cap to which the EPG discount is then applied bringing it down to the 33p figure.

And there was me certain that EPG reduction only applied to unit kWh rate.

MattMattMattUK

bristolleedsfan said:

MattMattMattUK said:

There is the price cap standing charge which then has a EPG discount applied on top. The 43.25p (around 46p on average) rate is the price cap to which the EPG discount is then applied bringing it down to the 33p figure.

And there was me certain that EPG reduction only applied to unit kWh rate.

The price cap is a cap on a unit of gas and electricity, with standing charges taken into account. It is not a cap on customers’ overall energy bills, which will still rise or fall in line with their energy consumption. From 1 January the equivalent per unit level of the price cap to the nearest pence for a typical customer paying by direct debit will be 67p per kWh for electricity customers and a standing charge of 46p per day. The equivalent per unit level for a typical gas customer is 17p per kWh with a standing charge of 28p per day. 


https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/latest-energy-price-cap-announced-ofgem

bristolleedsfan

MattMattMattUK said:

bristolleedsfan said:

MattMattMattUK said:

There is the price cap standing charge which then has a EPG discount applied on top. The 43.25p (around 46p on average) rate is the price cap to which the EPG discount is then applied bringing it down to the 33p figure.

And there was me certain that EPG reduction only applied to unit kWh rate.

The price cap is a cap on a unit of gas and electricity, with standing charges taken into account. It is not a cap on customers’ overall energy bills, which will still rise or fall in line with their energy consumption. From 1 January the equivalent per unit level of the price cap to the nearest pence for a typical customer paying by direct debit will be 67p per kWh for electricity customers and a standing charge of 46p per day. The equivalent per unit level for a typical gas customer is 17p per kWh with a standing charge of 28p per day. 


https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/latest-energy-price-cap-announced-ofgem

All I need to see now is official info that validates this statement that you made. 

"There is the price cap standing charge which then has a EPG discount applied on top"

MikeJXE

OH NOOOOOOOOOOOO  not another bloody argument

Spoonie_Turtle

MattMattMattUK said:

bristolleedsfan said:

MattMattMattUK said:

There is the price cap standing charge which then has a EPG discount applied on top. The 43.25p (around 46p on average) rate is the price cap to which the EPG discount is then applied bringing it down to the 33p figure.

And there was me certain that EPG reduction only applied to unit kWh rate.

The price cap is a cap on a unit of gas and electricity, with standing charges taken into account. It is not a cap on customers’ overall energy bills, which will still rise or fall in line with their energy consumption. From 1 January the equivalent per unit level of the price cap to the nearest pence for a typical customer paying by direct debit will be 67p per kWh for electricity customers and a standing charge of 46p per day. The equivalent per unit level for a typical gas customer is 17p per kWh with a standing charge of 28p per day. 


https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/latest-energy-price-cap-announced-ofgem

Wasn't that just the regional average?  As far as I'm aware there is no discount on the SC, only unit rate.

Scot_39

jinman said:

I have just come to the end of my fixed rate with So Energy and they have put me onto a variable rate, as there are currently no fixed rates.  (I believe there aren't really any fixed rates around at the moment.)  They sent me a list of the new rates and the standing charge for electricity is 43.25p per day.  When I looked on the MSE website I understood that the cap for this rate in London was 33.16p per day.  When I queried the rate with So, they directed me to the government page on the Energy Price Guarantee, saying that the cap was 46p per day.  I looked at the site and found a paragraph which said that this was the average price but could find no different amounts for different areas.  Are So allowed to charge Londoners 43.25p per day?

The actual Ofgem rates and the so called caps are regional - and vary with payment method.  As therefore do the EPG rates.

There is no one price cap - it's a deduction on the average SR price for electric.

AFAIK the Enrgy Price Gaurantee has absolutely no impact on the standing charge - it purely applies a discount / deduction to the unit rates.

From gov uk

"

Standing charges

Average standing charges for customers on default tariffs will remain capped in line with the levels set (in Great Britain) by Ofgem for the default tariff cap from 1 October 2022 to 31 March 2023, at 46p per day for electricity and 28p per day for gas, for a typical dual fuel customer paying by direct debit."

The clue is in the "Average"

See the first subsidiary link at bottom of

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/default-tariff-cap-level-1-january-2023-31-march-2023 

The rates for London for SR electric appear to be

£115.26+VAT for DD,

£133.79+VAT  for pay on receipt

and

£133.06+VAT for prepayment

43.25p per day = £157.86 if inc vat, £150.34 ex vat (or £165 if doesnt inc vat)

Southern or Eastern appear in that ballpark - depending on VAT or not and payment method - both border London.

He may be close - e..g on outskirts - but not actually counted as in London for billing.

Can OP check his actual regional code - first 2 digits on bottom line of MPAN ? 

If I read the wiki page correct - and as there are 14 listed and 14 Ofgem caps - assume that the region cap aligns exactly with distribution ID

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meter_Point_Administration_Number

London = 12

Southern = 20

Eastern = 10

If I take the EM MR number from those tables - get £159.42*1.05/365 = 45.86p - I pay 45.86p - same as EDF quote for my region E7 DD.

Or if look at the one supplier who clearly publishes full tables - showing all the regional SC levels it charges - by payment method (inc VAT) are at

https://www.edfenergy.com/sites/default/files/government_energy_price_guarantee_prices._standard_variable_deemed_and_welcome._credit_meters.pdf

Although cannot see 43.25p (or 43.25*1.05 = 45.41p ) exactly in that table - apart from North West - which is nowhere near London.

I could be wrong - so please shoot me down - but sure have read that these individual Ofgem tables are only in one sense advisory - only the sum - of all standing charges and all guideline usage (2900+12000 for duel fuel) is capped.  So as long as the total bill - inc SC and the units - agrees with the cap - the supplier has leeway to balance.

Can anyone confirm or deny that ?