Fitting Architrave Issue

paperclap

Hi all,

Back on the DIY train again.

Wanting to get my MDF architrave up soon. The plan is to use a grab adhesive sparingly (so as to not pack it out too much), and then use 40mm panel pins.

But the issue I’m having is with nailing in place. We’ve not had the rooms replastered – this is the original plaster, and original linings. The plaster is proud of the lining. So when I come to pin the architrave to the lining, the force of me pinning them in “kicks out” the back end. Attached is a photo of a scrap piece of wood, but the principle is the same.

Presumably the best thing to do is to pack out the space between the architrave somehow? My first idea was to place small pieces of strip wood where the pins will go. But stripwood is 4mm minimum, and some areas are less than that.

Anyone else had this issue?

Thanks in advance.

diystarter7

Hi OP
As I read your post I thought like you did ie thin ply

Try a proper wood merchant is any within your driving area. They will cut and shape wood as required - 

the alternative is stick the thin strip on the edge of the architrave and use a bit of wood filler etc to cover the crease, any small gaps and pait you wont be able to tell

Thanks

diystarter7

PS - looking at our double doors in one of the bedrooms, they have been rebated to fit over the other

So get the builders/wood shop  guy to rebate the architrave, job done 

you could do self but hard unless you have tools etc for that

ThisIsWeird

paperclap said:

Hi all,

Back on the DIY train again.

Wanting to get my MDF architrave up soon. The plan is to use a grab adhesive sparingly (so as to not pack it out too much), and then use 40mm panel pins.

But the issue I’m having is with nailing in place. We’ve not had the rooms replastered – this is the original plaster, and original linings. The plaster is proud of the lining. So when I come to pin the architrave to the lining, the force of me pinning them in “kicks out” the back end. Attached is a photo of a scrap piece of wood, but the principle is the same.

Presumably the best thing to do is to pack out the space between the architrave somehow? My first idea was to place small pieces of strip wood where the pins will go. But stripwood is 4mm minimum, and some areas are less than that.

Anyone else had this issue?

Thanks in advance.

Anyone else? You bet :-) It's darned annoying, and often happens when a wall is reskimmed.

Options? Underneath the plastered end will run a timber stud at least 2" wide. Drive your panel pins through there instead of the actual door frame. Once the adhesive is set, fill the gap on the inside with decorator's caulk.

 Or, as you said - small, temporary spacers to pack out the inside edge of the archi in order to keep it level until the adhesive has fixed. Pull out the spacers, and run a bead of dec caulk along the result gap, finishing it off with a square edged blade to get it neat. The spacer can be anything firm enough - build up layers of thin card (not corrugated type, but the 'solid' type that won't compress) to the required thickness. Tile spacers if the gap matches.

All other options - cutting into the plaster skim, or pre-adding a long fillet to the archi to fill the gap, or even - gasp - routing the archi to suit, are all too long-winded.

I use panel pins only for a temporary fix, and pull them out when the adhesive has set - easier to fill the resulting wee holes. I also drive a panel pin in to the mitred corners from above, and this keeps the mitres steady. I usually leave these in place - drive them home.

grumbler

paperclap said:

Presumably the best thing to do is to pack out the space between the architrave somehow?

The best thing is to shape the back side of architrave with a router so that it's stepped - like the plaster and the liner.

Not the easiest obviously.

ThisIsWeird said:

paperclap said:

Underneath the plastered end will run a timber stud at least 2" wide.

Not necessarily right next to the door liner. There can be pretty thick spacers/packers between the liner and the stud.

ETA: at a closer look it doesn't look like a stud wall to me.

FFHillbilly

I see joiners using 3 methods to fix this problem all the time.

option 1, plane the back of the architrave to suit (best result but takes a lot more time and you need a planer and skill)
option 2, hack a bit of the plaster off so the architrave sits flat (messy but easy to do and cheap)
option 3, fit it and fill the gap with caulk (yee-haw)

ThisIsWeird

FFHillbilly said:

I see joiners using 3 methods to fix this problem all the time.

option 1, plane the back of the architrave to suit (best result but takes a lot more time and you need a planer and skill)
option 2, hack a bit of the plaster off so the architrave sits flat (messy but easy to do and cheap)
option 3, fit it and fill the gap with caulk (yee-haw)

No3 it certainly is then :-)

Tbh, it is what I would likely do - as a pretty seasoned DIYer. 
No1 - you have got to be kidding. Just not worth the clamping and planing hassle.
No2 - an archi partially buried in skim, so common when a room has been reskimmed with the archi left in place - is simply one of my personal aesthetic pet hates. Yuck :-)
No3 - this can be done neatly, and is by far the easiest solution. The only issue is getting the caulk fill crisp. Often worth doing in two passes - a second smear once the original has done any shrinking it's going to. A crisp square Fugi, and a sprinkle of water.

ThisIsWeird

grumbler said:

paperclap said:

Presumably the best thing to do is to pack out the space between the architrave somehow?

The best thing is to shape the back side of architrave with a router so that it's stepped - like the plaster and the liner.

Not the easiest obviously.

ThisIsWeird said:

paperclap said:

Underneath the plastered end will run a timber stud at least 2" wide.

Not necessarily right next to the door liner. There can be pretty thick spacers/packers between the liner and the stud.

ETA: at a closer look it doesn't look like a stud wall to me.

Very possibly, Grumb.

Still not an issue, tho' - p'pins are only a temp fix while adhesive sets, so only need driving into the plaster layer enough for this job. A pin or two in the mitre will keep that part neat and tight.

paperclap

Thanks all.

Yes, this is a brick / block wall.

My father had actually suggested rebating the architrave to suit the plaster. I have a router, so certainly possibly. However, that will in turn decrease the depth of the architrave (from 18mm, to say 16mm). The result being that it’ll then be shallower than the skirting next to it at the bottom!

To be honest, I was going to drive the panel pins home. I’ve never understood why you’d pull them out? Surely you risk detaching the architrave in areas where the adhesive may be weak… plus, you’ll still have to fill holes!

As for the mitres, driving a pin in was all the plan… but, doesn’t MDF have a tendency to split and pull apart when a nail goes in lengthways? If that is the case, will probably use either wood glue or mitre adhesive.

Oddly, I hadn’t thought of using temporary packers (like cardboard or window spacers)! Though when gluing and pinning the architrave, it may be a bit fiddly holding up several temporary packers. May be worth just popping some permanent stripwood behind? But set back, so not visible from the inside (so doesn’t then interfere with the caulk).

FFHillbilly

ThisIsWeird said:

FFHillbilly said:

I see joiners using 3 methods to fix this problem all the time.

option 1, plane the back of the architrave to suit (best result but takes a lot more time and you need a planer and skill)
option 2, hack a bit of the plaster off so the architrave sits flat (messy but easy to do and cheap)
option 3, fit it and fill the gap with caulk (yee-haw)

No2 - an archi partially buried in skim, so common when a room has been reskimmed with the archi left in place - is simply one of my personal aesthetic pet hates. Yuck :-)

Just to clear things up No2 isnt going to have the architrave buried in the plaster, by just removing enough plaster from the corner the architrave will sit a lot flatter and it greatly reduces the gap to be caulked. you don't remove so much plaster, all the mess is covered by the architrave

ThisIsWeird

paperclap said:

Thanks all.

Yes, this is a brick / block wall.

My father had actually suggested rebating the architrave to suit the plaster. I have a router, so certainly possibly. However, that will in turn decrease the depth of the architrave (from 18mm, to say 16mm). The result being that it’ll then be shallower than the skirting next to it at the bottom!

To be honest, I was going to drive the panel pins home. I’ve never understood why you’d pull them out? Surely you risk detaching the architrave in areas where the adhesive may be weak… plus, you’ll still have to fill holes!

As for the mitres, driving a pin in was all the plan… but, doesn’t MDF have a tendency to split and pull apart when a nail goes in lengthways? If that is the case, will probably use either wood glue or mitre adhesive.

Oddly, I hadn’t thought of using temporary packers (like cardboard or window spacers)! Though when gluing and pinning the architrave, it may be a bit fiddly holding up several temporary packers. May be worth just popping some permanent stripwood behind? But set back, so not visible from the inside (so doesn’t then interfere with the caulk).

Ah, MDF - yes, it'll split. Mitre-bond can work well, and is worth a try. But whether to join a mitre before offering it into place, or to glue and hold it in situ, I don't know!

Soz - just a personal thing about removing the pins - it makes equal sense to drive them home, tho' you'll obviously struggle if into the wall. If you have a nail-punch, then job's a good 'un. If not - if you try sinking the heads with, say, another nail - you'll soon find one reason why it's a pet hate of mine... Coupled with the then-tin layer of filler on top, which can sometimes cause the nail head to rust. As might the water-based primer. And top coat...

If you have a bench saw, so can cut thin strips of timber/MDF, then adding a fillet along the door-side edge is a goer, but it'll need doing neatly, or the two layers sanded completely flat together - not the easiest with MDF as it can become fibrous.

If you have all the tools - sharp block plane and stuff - then great.