Economy 7 worry

MattMattMattUK

Scot_39 said:

SVR custumers frequently will not be relying on electricity for heating in winter months.

When I looked at Ofgem cap tables - and forecast those sort of rises - I was told I was being silly, or worse still alarmist.

That the "EPG" wasn't changing so our bills shouldn't.

Many others would have assumed the same.

Clearly the fuel and poverty charities commenting on the BBC article don't believe it is working well.

And the OP - who is struggling with costs - isn't worried about the why - only that his price may have gone up again - when already struggling.

And the analysis of over 2.5 m homes - says there will be millions so impacted who don't believe the EPG is working for them.

Their beliefs do not reflect reality, the EPG is working for them, perhaps not as much as they would like, or perhaps they do not understand what it is doing, but it is significantly reducing their costs. 

pochase

Scot_39 said:

Or in even simpler terms - the price of heating by gas has remained near constant 

The price of heating for electric on E7 (or E10 etc) has for many not.  That 7.6% was total bill - not the individual rates.

With the above example reported my MSE a whopping 17.5%.

If anything like that sort of rise - even the average 7.6% annually -  had happened to c78%,  around 22m,of uk homes with GCH - it would have been daily headline news.

E7 customers did receive an additional discount in October.

In January they were brought onto the the same level as the single rate customers. So yes they pay more than they did in October, but no they did not get an unfair increase, they were just brought onto the same level single rate users were paying already since October.

Instead of being happy that you paid less for three month, you are now complaining that you are paying the same as everybody else.

MattMattMattUK

Scot_39 said:

Or in even simpler terms - the price of heating by gas has remained near constant 

The price paid by the consumer is 3.5-4 times higher than two years ago, the price before EPG is 5.5 times higher, that is not "near consistent".

Scot_39 said:

The price of heating for electric on E7 (or E10 etc) has for many not.  That 7.6% was total bill - not the individual rates.

For all it is more expensive than two years ago, however when compared to a month ago for some it is cheaper, for most it is the same, or almost the same, for others it is more expensive depending on their day/night split and their day/night rates.

Scot_39 said:

With the above example reported my MSE a whopping 17.5%.

There will always be outliers, but in those extremes they could likely reduce that by changing to a supplier with different day/night rates.

Scot_39 said:

If anything like that sort of rise - even the average 7.6% annually -  had happened to c78%,  around 22m,of uk homes with GCH - it would have been daily headline news.

The bills of those with gas central heating tripled in two years, it was headline news.

Scot_39

With all due respect - no one here is talking about the last 2 years - but the changes on Jan 1st. And you will not I conceded that you could argue that the rates were too low in Oct - Dec. The UK is meant to have an EPG system put in place by the govt to stabilize the prices of domestic bills - now set at £2500 for 6 months. The increase to £3000 for April - arguably delayed specifically - to maintain that stability over winter months. And for E7 customers - and c0.5m E10 and other multi-rate users - who frequently cannot move suppliers - there has been no such stability.

MattMattMattUK

Scot_39 said:

With all due respect - no one here is talking about the last 2 years - but the changes on Jan 1st. And you will not I conceded that you could argue that the rates were too low in Oct - Dec. The UK is meant to have an EPG system put in place by the govt to stabilize the prices of domestic bills - now set at £2500 for 6 months. The increase to £3000 for April - arguably delayed specifically - to maintain that stability over winter months. And for E7 customers - and c0.5m E10 and other multi-rate users - who frequently cannot move suppliers - there has been no such stability.

It was not designed to stabilise the cost, it was designed to reduce the cost, which it is doing. Those on E7 got a better deal than those on SVT, they now get an equivalent deal to those on the SVT. The UK does have an EPG in place, it is functioning as intended, the increase to £3,000 was not "delayed" until April, it was announced that it would rise from then.

The E7 users got a better deal than everyone else for three months, the fact that they now get an equivalent deal does not mean that they are getting screwed over.

EssexHebridean

Scot_39 said:

With all due respect - no one here is talking about the last 2 years - but the changes on Jan 1st. And you will not I conceded that you could argue that the rates were too low in Oct - Dec. The UK is meant to have an EPG system put in place by the govt to stabilize the prices of domestic bills - now set at £2500 for 6 months. The increase to £3000 for April - arguably delayed specifically - to maintain that stability over winter months. And for E7 customers - and c0.5m E10 and other multi-rate users - who frequently cannot move suppliers - there has been no such stability.

I am an E7 customer. From October > December I benefited from the fact that for whatever reason my averaged unit price was set below the level that. Single rate EPG SVR customer would have been paying. Rightly, that was amended in January to bring our unit rate onto the same level as the EPG rates being paid by those single rate SVR customers. I’m grateful that Inhad those three months on thr lower rates, but it would have been downright unfair for it to continue. 

It’s not particularly challenging to change supplier on E7 either - I’ve done it repeatedly over the years, and most recently from Green Energy U.K. to Octopus in October. You are correct however that for those on E10, THTC etc it can prove more problematic as there are fewer suppliers who support those tariffs.

The “lack of stability” however was caused by us being undercharged in the first place, in real terms, not in our unit prices being increased to above the level that is set in the EPG - that’s not what has happened. 

SnakePlissken

MattMattMattUK said:

Scot_39 said:

With all due respect - no one here is talking about the last 2 years - but the changes on Jan 1st. And you will not I conceded that you could argue that the rates were too low in Oct - Dec. The UK is meant to have an EPG system put in place by the govt to stabilize the prices of domestic bills - now set at £2500 for 6 months. The increase to £3000 for April - arguably delayed specifically - to maintain that stability over winter months. And for E7 customers - and c0.5m E10 and other multi-rate users - who frequently cannot move suppliers - there has been no such stability.

It was not designed to stabilise the cost, it was designed to reduce the cost, which it is doing. Those on E7 got a better deal than those on SVT, they now get an equivalent deal to those on the SVT. The UK does have an EPG in place, it is functioning as intended, the increase to £3,000 was not "delayed" until April, it was announced that it would rise from then.

The E7 users got a better deal than everyone else for three months, the fact that they now get an equivalent deal does not mean that they are getting screwed over.

I disagree with you and so does Martin Lewis who has been in discussions with energy companies over the 7.5% rise as being unfair. 

Some people are in hardship and sometimes I thinks posters on this forum really do not get that.

I use other forums and none of them have the inherant issues which this energy forum has. Users on others are far more helpful, less judgemental and accept that we are aw nae the same.

dunstonh

I disagree with you and so does Martin Lewis who has been in discussions with energy companies over the 7.5% rise as being unfair. 

Martin Lewis will jump on any bandwagon that suits his brand.     Some of those he supports do not deserve it and do not stand up to scrutiny.   However, if its popular (even if wrong)  then he will often support it.

E7 increased due to an error that resulted in E7 users getting 3 months of cheaper rates than they should have.  They were brought in line with single rate users.   So, how has any E7 user lost out and how is it unfair?

Single rate users should be complaining that it was unfair that E7 users got a slightly better rate for 3 months.

pochase

What has reality and math to do with being helpful or judgemental? Maybe users on other forums are less knowledgeable about how E7 calculation works? 

Do the math for the new E7 rates from January and you will find that they are the same level as single rate EPG for the 4200KWh 58% / 42% based calculation of the equivalent to single rate.

Do the same for your October rates and you will find that they are on the same calculation up to 2p cheaper than than single rate EPG. 

That is just math based on the Ofgem rules for the calculation of the rated E7 rate.

Maybe you can explain how you calculate that the new E7 rates are worse than the single rate EPG? Please show an example where the E7 rates are more expensive based on the Ofgem rules for calculating the ratio between day and night.

It is not great if people suddenly have to pay more, I fully understand that, but to say it is unfair that they have to pay same EPG rate as single rate users is something different. Why should an E7 user get more support than others, which is exactly what happened for October to December.

SnakePlissken

dunstonh said:

I disagree with you and so does Martin Lewis who has been in discussions with energy companies over the 7.5% rise as being unfair. 

Martin Lewis will jump on any bandwagon that suits his brand.     Some of those he supports do not deserve it and do not stand up to scrutiny.   However, if its popular (even if wrong)  then he will often support it.

E7 increased due to an error that resulted in E7 users getting 3 months of cheaper rates than they should have.  They were brought in line with single rate users.   So, how has any E7 user lost out and how is it unfair?

Single rate users should be complaining that it was unfair that E7 users got a slightly better rate for 3 months.

So if you have an issue with Martin lewis and "his brand" why are you here posting on this forum?


Its more than Martin Lewis, Scottish Government agrees with his opinion too. I believe labour have also commented on this.

And given a high proportion of E7 or as it used to be know in Scotland white meter users are there and use this predominately for heating, compared to electricity users who use gas they pay substantialy more in heating.
Especially since across north of   Scotland with remote areas like north perthshire, Invernesshire, Angus, and places like  Balater and braemar are the coldest parts of the UK. And will use well above the paltry £3000 that the cap is set at for all electric homes.