Economy 7 worry

CJScat

Hi I moved into our house a few days before lockdown. The house was on economy 7 with a 2 reading meter. The radiators are just normal and not storage heater. I have a combi boiler for heat,hot water. My electric usage is mainly in the day time hours in kitchen, lights ,TV and audio equipment, chargers etc.  I hate the fire risk of using a wahing machine,drier or dishwasher overnight but do end up using the washer to cut costs . The other devices I have stopped using since the New year die to cost. I know the Economy 7 cost have not be given the same price protection as a the single rates. I feel stuck with no help and rising bills since januray.
I read that the big companies can create a single payment option by combining figures which would be protected as single rates are.
E.on tell me my 2 rate readings are not flexible and I have to continue with paying more in the day than at night. They can only help if I change my meter but warn that would mean me paying for a new meter. 
I exist on just my minimum wage so feel stressed as I can't afford the rising bills and can't pay for a new meter to lessen my bills. 

MattMattMattUK

CJScat said:

Hi I moved into our house a few days before lockdown. The house was on economy 7 with a 2 reading meter. The radiators are just normal and not storage heater. I have a combi boiler for heat,hot water. My electric usage is mainly in the day time hours in kitchen, lights ,TV and audio equipment, chargers etc.  I hate the fire risk of using a wahing machine,drier or dishwasher overnight but do end up using the washer to cut costs . The other devices I have stopped using since the New year die to cost. I know the Economy 7 cost have not be given the same price protection as a the single rates. I feel stuck with no help and rising bills since januray.
I read that the big companies can create a single payment option by combining figures which would be protected as single rates are.

That is a misunderstanding, E7 has been given exactly the same protection as part of the EPG, but rates to vary in their day/night splits which can impact people differently depending on their supplier, region and usage. That being said the fact that you are not using storage heaters and have a gas boiler almost certainly means that E7 is a more expensive option for you.

CJScat said:

E.on tell me my 2 rate readings are not flexible and I have to continue with paying more in the day than at night. They can only help if I change my meter but warn that would mean me paying for a new meter. 
I exist on just my minimum wage so feel stressed as I can't afford the rising bills and can't pay for a new meter to lessen my bills. 

Some suppliers will do that, others will not, it depends on the supplier and the meter in place. What kind of meter do you have, do you have one or two meters? If you have a single meter with two registers (day/night) then ask for a smart meter to be installed, once installed it is easy to switch over to single rate.

EssexHebridean

It may be that a supplier switch will work for you. I’d suggest maybe giving Octopus a call - asking if they would be willing to let you go into a single rate tariff with you giving two readings until such time as your current meter can be changed for a smart meter, they may well be open to this idea. If you can get a referral code from an existing Octopus customer amongst your family/friends then that will also help towards the costs of your bills as they give a £50 bill credit to both parties. 

Allowing that you have an old style meter (as a smart one could be changed over remotely) Eon are being a bit cheeky saying you’d have to pay for a new meter too IMO - allowing that it would almost certainly be a smart meter they would install! They must know that this isn’t true - and it comes across to me at least as them trying to scare you out of changing. 

dunstonh

I know the Economy 7 cost have not be given the same price protection as a the single rates. 

They have been given the same price protection.  However, due to the nature of E7 with its two rates its a bit like a see saw.  The middle point matches the protection of single rate but the dual pricing means as one rate goes up the other rate goes down (or vice versa).  i.e. if the supplier lowers their off peak rate, then the peak rate goes up but by a ratio that sees the median price match the protected price.

E.on tell me my 2 rate readings are not flexible and I have to continue with paying more in the day than at night. They can only help if I change my meter but warn that would mean me paying for a new meter. 

That is not correct.  And I know it as I used to be with E.on and would switch to single rate over summers and back to economy 7 in winter.  It didnt require a meter change each time.    However, I had a digital meter (not smart) and don't have circuit switching. It's all done by timers.  If you have circuit switching, they may argue the need for change.  Although in theory, they could just apply single pricing to both rates (which is what they did for us).

Switching suppliers with E7 is still possible.  And can make a big difference.   So suppliers have gone extremely cheap off peak and expensive peak whilst others have less of a difference.     You can potentially make big savings if you know what your ratio of offpeak and peak use is and switch to a provider that prices well for that ratio.

macman

Request a smart meter install: this is free of charge. As soon as installed, request a switch to single rate (SVT) tariff. This can be done remotely, again, no charge.
Why Eon are making you jump through hoops, or suggesting that you have to pay for a new meter to do this, I have no idea.

YBR

It's definitely possible to have the same day/night tariff rates on E7 meters - I landed on that with at least one of the SoLR episodes I've been through. If Eon don't do that others do, you may need to phone them to change rather than going via an online site.

The other route, as suggested is to move to a smartmeter first

Scot_39

It is nonsense to claim E7 and other multirate tariff (E10 etc) users being protected exactly the same under the EPG during latest Ofgem cap revisions.

Although E7 customers benefit from the same effective EPG discounts, they have not been protected in exactly the same way as SR users during the last Ofgem cap review.

As per this article 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64332617

And an average 7.6% increase.

And whilst some on aggressive splits and high usage in some regions with some suppliers, have seen a price drop.  Many have not.  And anyone with a cost saving has lowered that analysis average.

Like with EOn who have increased both day and night rates - by over 2p in some regions. 

As in examples at 

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2022/12/economy-7-price-rises-form-january/

The third example is EOn, on E7 and 2.44p rise, thats 17.5% on their off peak rate - the users heating rate - going into normally coldest months of winter.

No SR customer has seen anything as large a change.

And the cause of the shift - is that the balance between Ofgem multirate cap table and single rate cap table has shifted.And the discount is based on the SR table.

Now you might then argue the rates were then set too low in Oct.

But doesn't change the simple fact that for many, despite the EPG remaining fixed, they have seen a very significant price rise.


And the changes are so significant - some posters here- even with moderate off peak use - have now switched E7 to SR - as it now works out cheaper.

So the OP should check if E7now right for their own situation.
But using panel heaters on SR rather than nsh on e7 - could still make a big difference to bills.
And the EPG discount issue - is likely to clear in Q3 (Jul23) if forecasts for Ofgem cap dropping below April EPG £3000 actually occurs.

MattMattMattUK

Scot_39 said:

It is nonsense to claim E7 and other multirate tariff (E10 etc) users being protected exactly the same under the EPG during latest Ofgem cap revisions.

Although E7 customers benefit from the same effective EPG discounts, they have not been protected in exactly the same way as SR users during the last Ofgem cap review.

As per this article 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64332617

And an average 7.6% increase.

That is because they were effectively cheaper than the EPG rate that those on the SVR were paying.

Scot_39 said:

And whilst some on aggressive splits and high usage in some regions with some suppliers, have seen a price drop.  Many have not.  And anyone with a cost saving has lowered that analysis average.

Like with EOn who have increased both day and night rates - by over 2p in some regions. 

As in examples at 

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2022/12/economy-7-price-rises-form-january/

The third example is EOn, on E7 and 2.44p rise, thats 17.5% on their off peak rate - the users heating rate - going into normally coldest months of winter.

Some suppliers have increase one rate, some both, some increased one and lowered another. E7 is not for everyone, who it works for depends on their day/night split in usage and rate, for some it was marginal at best before, others can save considerably by switching supplier due to differences in day and night prices. Again, the percentage increase is irrelevant, they were below the EPG before, they now align with it.

Scot_39 said:

No SR customer has seen anything as large a change.

And the cause of the shift - is that the balance between Ofgem multirate cap table and single rate cap table has shifted.And the discount is based on the SR table.

Now you might then argue the rates were then set too low in Oct.

But doesn't change the simple fact that for many, despite the EPG remaining fixed, they have seen a very significant price rise.

SVR customers had those higher rates before, the E7 rates took three more months to catch up. No one is arguing that some on E7 have not seen a price rise, however the fact remains they that they are still protected by the EPG to the same extent as everyone else.

Scot_39

SVR custumers frequently will not be relying on electricity for heating in winter months.

When I looked at Ofgem cap tables - and forecast those sort of rises - I was told I was being silly, or worse still alarmist.

That the "EPG" wasn't changing so our bills shouldn't.

Many others would have assumed the same.

Clearly the fuel and poverty charities commenting on the BBC article don't believe it is working well.

And the OP - who is struggling with costs - isn't worried about the why - only that his price may have gone up again - when already struggling.

And the analysis of over 2.5 m homes - says there will be millions so impacted who don't believe the EPG is working for them.

dave_dph

Following the collapse of Symbio my neighbour was moved to Eon through the SLR process. As she no longer has storage heaters, Eon were more than happy to bill her on the standard tariff from day one of going live on supply. They actually advised against a meter change in case she wanted to go back onto E7 in the future! She has since had a smart meter fitted and Eon still bill on the standard tariff.

I suggest you speak to a different adviser and say you want to be moved onto standard tariff with night and day usage charged at the same rate.

Scot_39

Or in even simpler terms - the price of heating by gas has remained near constant 

The price of heating for electric on E7 (or E10 etc) has for many not.  That 7.6% was total bill - not the individual rates.

With the above example reported my MSE a whopping 17.5%.

If anything like that sort of rise - even the average 7.6% annually -  had happened to c78%,  around 22m,of uk homes with GCH - it would have been daily headline news.