Customer demanding receipts

ashe

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

liberty_lily said:

Risteard said:

liberty_lily said:

GDB2222 said:

Does he have insurance? If so, that would hopefully at least cover any rectification costs on work that the customer is alleging is unsatisfactory. 

Also, I take it that DH worked as self employed, and he didn’t have a limited company?

GDB2222, sadly no insurance unfortunately. We belatedly looked into public liability and professional indemnity insurance but whilst you can get retroactive cover going back to when he started his business, it wouldn't cover him (obviously) for issues where the complaint had already been raised...such as this.

Not a limited company, no.

How can he possibly have been self-employed without at least Public Liability Insurance?

Because as far as we were aware, there is no legal requirement to have it. This is obviously foolish and we hugely regret it now...but it is what it is, unfortunately. 

If it's any consolation I don't think Public Liability Insurance would cover this, it's more for someone tripping over a wire or something falling off scaffolding, there is Product Liability Insurance but I don't think that applies either and there is insurance to cover lost wages for the self employed if ill.

I'd imagine some of these things come with legal cover (or have it as an add on) which would obviously be of help if the customer ends up going down the legal route. 

Sorry if it's been missed but has the customer been asked if they would like DH to finish the job? Clarifying this in a way that encourages them to say yes might be a good step forward  

Professional indemnity insurance is what would be needed here - it covers poor work, negligence, bad design etc - not sure if it is available to builders or not but that's the type of cover needed, I used to have it as a wedding photographer. 

liberty_lily

ashe said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

liberty_lily said:

Risteard said:

liberty_lily said:

GDB2222 said:

Does he have insurance? If so, that would hopefully at least cover any rectification costs on work that the customer is alleging is unsatisfactory. 

Also, I take it that DH worked as self employed, and he didn’t have a limited company?

GDB2222, sadly no insurance unfortunately. We belatedly looked into public liability and professional indemnity insurance but whilst you can get retroactive cover going back to when he started his business, it wouldn't cover him (obviously) for issues where the complaint had already been raised...such as this.

Not a limited company, no.

How can he possibly have been self-employed without at least Public Liability Insurance?

Because as far as we were aware, there is no legal requirement to have it. This is obviously foolish and we hugely regret it now...but it is what it is, unfortunately. 

If it's any consolation I don't think Public Liability Insurance would cover this, it's more for someone tripping over a wire or something falling off scaffolding, there is Product Liability Insurance but I don't think that applies either and there is insurance to cover lost wages for the self employed if ill.

I'd imagine some of these things come with legal cover (or have it as an add on) which would obviously be of help if the customer ends up going down the legal route. 

Sorry if it's been missed but has the customer been asked if they would like DH to finish the job? Clarifying this in a way that encourages them to say yes might be a good step forward  

Professional indemnity insurance is what would be needed here - it covers poor work, negligence, bad design etc - not sure if it is available to builders or not but that's the type of cover needed, I used to have it as a wedding photographer. 

Thanks ashe - Yes, it would have to be professional indemnity insurance. I looked into this recently and whilst you can get retroactive cover going back to when the business was started, it wouldn't cover you if there were rumblings of a complaint at the time of taking out the policy...which there would already be in this particular instance.

In response to the_lunatic_is_in_my_head - DH has now contacted the customer regarding this and is awaiting a reply.

liberty_lily

A further update from me -

Having done as @Doozergirl suggested and sent the customer a spreadsheet of materials purchased as well as a letter stating his proposal to return to site to complete the work at no additional charge to them when he has some holiday due (not to mention weather suited to rendering), last evening DH received a response. 

Amongst plentiful other things, they stated they are not happy with this proposition and they believe he is lying regarding the mitigating circumstances he gave (his health issues/the weather). They are also unhappy with his 'list' of materials which they say could have been purchased for less.

In addition they claimed to have had experts view his work and these have judged it to be poor and done with incorrect materials. 

They accused him of 'abhorrent' behaviour and again stated their intention to pursue him for £19+k plus costs.

We intend seeking legal advice as soon as DH has a day off.

DE_612183

ok, I would ask them to allow access to an independent expert to assess the work done and produce a report.

The issue you have got here is that they could sabotage any work thats currently in site and make it look like poor workmanship....

Gavin83

Fine. He's taken steps to resolve this situation and the customer has refused. Even if the customer isn't happy with the standard of work they'll need to give your DH the opportunity to rectify this, not just refuse and take him to court.

In your situation I'd send a basic response saying your saddened that they've refused the offer to finish the work but if their intention is to take you to court you'll defend the case and therefore will await contact from their solicitor. Keep it polite.

At £19k+ it's too high for the small claims court and therefore they'll need to take it through the full court process. This does mean should they lose they'll be liable for your costs. Your argument is that you dispute the quality of the work claims, you've offered to finish the job and they've refused and if you can you can supply evidence to support your mitigating circumstances. I suspect their 'experts' are just other builders who have a vested interest in criticising your DH's work. I suspect once they're asked to provide evidence to a court they'll back away. I think the suggestion of allowing access to an independent expert is a good one too. They'll likely refuse but that too would be within your interest.

I really don't think they've got much of a case but none of us can say how it'll go on the day.

If your DH really can't deal with a court case the other option is to offer them a settlement. Again they might well refuse and it'll likely lead to you being out of pocket but it could potentially stop the court case.

twopenny

You have some good advice.

They have offered no proof that the work is not good

They have offered no evidence of what other trades have said.

They won't allow your husband to finish or correct and they can't get anyone else to do so. That makes no sense.

I'd just add that I would include with Gavins "therefore will await contact from their solicitor" so that you can instruct yours. You don't have one but they don't know that and call their bluff. It should make them think that you are confident in your defense. That you will take their challenge - even if you won't. You don't have to persue it but make them think you will.

This is bullying. "involves some type of dominance over others" and usually of someone they know (or think) is vulnerable. That's what makes it despicable. I've been on the receiving end but it is possible to come out in one piece. And if they've done it once they will do it again. This won't be the first time so later you may hear that this person has done it to others.

But so far you're doing great by standing reasonable and polite. They are coming across as unreasonable and unable to prove their point.

liberty_lily

Thank you all so much...there's some great advice there and we both very much appreciate it.

We've identified a local solicitor and hope to get an appointment on Friday when DH is off and we will definitely be using the advice above to respond in a measured and professional manner to the customer's latest email. 

Gavin83

I wouldn’t spend a lot on this just yet. Probably worth speaking to a solicitor to get an idea of your position but until they actually start the process of taking you to court you don’t really need to do anything.

GDB2222

Gavin83 said:

I wouldn’t spend a lot on this just yet. Probably worth speaking to a solicitor to get an idea of your position but until they actually start the process of taking you to court you don’t really need to do anything.

The OP doesn’t need to do anything yet, but a letter from a solicitor would not be expensive and indicates that the op will not be a walk over. 

I think the op is right to see a solicitor soon. It’s a shame to incur the fees, but a stitch in time saves nine, as they say. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Gavin83 said:

Fine. He's taken steps to resolve this situation and the customer has refused. Even if the customer isn't happy with the standard of work they'll need to give your DH the opportunity to rectify this, not just refuse and take him to court.

In your situation I'd send a basic response saying your saddened that they've refused the offer to finish the work but if their intention is to take you to court you'll defend the case and therefore will await contact from their solicitor. Keep it polite.

At £19k+ it's too high for the small claims court and therefore they'll need to take it through the full court process. This does mean should they lose they'll be liable for your costs. Your argument is that you dispute the quality of the work claims, you've offered to finish the job and they've refused and if you can you can supply evidence to support your mitigating circumstances. I suspect their 'experts' are just other builders who have a vested interest in criticising your DH's work. I suspect once they're asked to provide evidence to a court they'll back away. I think the suggestion of allowing access to an independent expert is a good one too. They'll likely refuse but that too would be within your interest.

I really don't think they've got much of a case but none of us can say how it'll go on the day.

If your DH really can't deal with a court case the other option is to offer them a settlement. Again they might well refuse and it'll likely lead to you being out of pocket but it could potentially stop the court case.

It's worth noting that 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/55/enacted

(1)The right to require repeat performance is a right to require the trader to perform the service again, to the extent necessary to complete its performance in conformity with the contract.

(2)If the consumer requires such repeat performance, the trader—

(a)must provide it within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to the consumer; and

(b)must bear any necessary costs incurred in doing so (including in particular the cost of any labour or materials).

(3)The consumer cannot require repeat performance if completing performance of the service in conformity with the contract is impossible.

(4)Any question as to what is a reasonable time or significant inconvenience is to be determined taking account of—

(a)the nature of the service, and

(b)the purpose for which the service was to be performed.

The weather is still naff so that may be a good reason to delay work but talk of having another job may counter against DH.

Sorry to hear this OP, I would seek an independent inspection at this point, the court should judge both (that from DH and that from the customer) and decide which is correct based on the experience of those who gave it.