Friend been issued S8 G8,10,11,17 how can she sort this fast

Standingstrong

3card said:

Standingstrong said:

UnderOffer said:

Standingstrong said:

LegallyLandlord said:

Is it during the fixed term period? If not, the landlord could always serve a s21 notice or wait and do it if the relationship has broken down. 

Shouting is never a good approach for trying to win someone round when they are ultimately in a position of strength. 

In a fixed 12 month AST expires in November this year

That’s probably made the Landlord very wary of their new tenant. They paid 1 month in Nov, then defaulted in Dec and Jan? Not good. 

But it’s not her fault her account got shut for fraud since November tho? The la was understandably fine and so was the LL

12 month ago i had a tenant that was behind on her rent. On the 2nd month she sent me a screenshot of notification from her bank confirming her account had been blocked but it showed it was for a 1st Party fraud. This was after she told me that someone had hacked her account and this was the problem

After looking into it and finding out what 1st party fraud was i continued to kick her out using S8 G8, 10 & 11 and finally got possession.
So you will see that 'sometimes' its not possible to take peoples words at face value

Good for you I suppose 

born_again

Standingstrong said:

3card said:

Standingstrong said:

UnderOffer said:

Standingstrong said:

LegallyLandlord said:

Is it during the fixed term period? If not, the landlord could always serve a s21 notice or wait and do it if the relationship has broken down. 

Shouting is never a good approach for trying to win someone round when they are ultimately in a position of strength. 

In a fixed 12 month AST expires in November this year

That’s probably made the Landlord very wary of their new tenant. They paid 1 month in Nov, then defaulted in Dec and Jan? Not good. 

But it’s not her fault her account got shut for fraud since November tho? The la was understandably fine and so was the LL

12 month ago i had a tenant that was behind on her rent. On the 2nd month she sent me a screenshot of notification from her bank confirming her account had been blocked but it showed it was for a 1st Party fraud. This was after she told me that someone had hacked her account and this was the problem

After looking into it and finding out what 1st party fraud was i continued to kick her out using S8 G8, 10 & 11 and finally got possession.
So you will see that 'sometimes' its not possible to take peoples words at face value

Good for you I suppose 

Did you get your non P/X £20k debt sorted?

Standingstrong

_Penny_Dreadful said:

housebuyer143 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

macman said:

I think your friend needs to accept that relations with the LL have broken down irretrievably and that, even if the arrears are paid in full tomorrow, the LL is likely to continue with seeking to gain possession under 11 and 17.
I doubt they want to risk further loss of income by waiting to serve an S21 in November, if that is the end of the fixed term TA.

No sane landlord would walk into a court hoping to get a possession order using two discretionary grounds with a Section 8 notice.  As all communication thus far has been with the letting agent I wonder if adding grounds 10, 11 and 17 were the idea of an over-zealous letting agent rater than the landlord.

When we did section 8 notices at the letting agent I worked for, you always put every available ground down on the section 8 in case the arrears got cleared before the court date. Some landlords still wished to press forward on discretionary grounds. Some landlords I know got possession this way.

If you are doing it anyway, what harm does including the additional grounds do 

When you go to court off the back of a Section 8 using a mandatory ground then providing you can prove the mandatory ground e.g. 2 months rent is owed the tenants cannot defend the case and the judge has to grant the possession order even if he/she thinks eviction is a bit unfair e.g. when someone’s bank account has been frozen so they cannot access their money to pay the rent. 

On the other hand if you only walk into court with a discretionary ground(s) you not only have to prove the condition for the ground is met but the judge has to deem it reasonable for the tenant to be evicted because of it. For example, say you walk in with just ground 10 and at the time of the hearing the tenant owes you £1, yes the condition for ground 10 is met but no judge is going to grant a possession order over £1. 

With discretionary grounds the tenant is entitled to defend it and if they choose to put in a defence the case will not be concluded during the initial hearing as it would be with a mandatory ground.  You then have to wait weeks/months for the next hearing. The case can become drawn out and therefore expensive meanwhile the tenant, if in receipt of benefits could be entitled to legal aid.  It’s much easier for the landlord to issue a Section 21 at the earliest time possible. 

So when she pays the arrears off this week even though the landlord might not go ahead after it all being paid , 

if he does go to court they can’t do nothing about arrears as it would’ve been paid , 

so what your trying to say is my friend IF it does go to court she can defend the ground 11 and 17 ? 

Standingstrong

born_again said:

Standingstrong said:

3card said:

Standingstrong said:

UnderOffer said:

Standingstrong said:

LegallyLandlord said:

Is it during the fixed term period? If not, the landlord could always serve a s21 notice or wait and do it if the relationship has broken down. 

Shouting is never a good approach for trying to win someone round when they are ultimately in a position of strength. 

In a fixed 12 month AST expires in November this year

That’s probably made the Landlord very wary of their new tenant. They paid 1 month in Nov, then defaulted in Dec and Jan? Not good. 

But it’s not her fault her account got shut for fraud since November tho? The la was understandably fine and so was the LL

12 month ago i had a tenant that was behind on her rent. On the 2nd month she sent me a screenshot of notification from her bank confirming her account had been blocked but it showed it was for a 1st Party fraud. This was after she told me that someone had hacked her account and this was the problem

After looking into it and finding out what 1st party fraud was i continued to kick her out using S8 G8, 10 & 11 and finally got possession.
So you will see that 'sometimes' its not possible to take peoples words at face value

Good for you I suppose 

Did you get your non P/X £20k debt sorted?

Yes I did get it sorted , this is about my friend do not derail thread on other situations thanks 

Standingstrong

housebuyer143 said:

Standingstrong said:

housebuyer143 said:

I think your friend needs to look at their choices. Not paying any rent apart from the first payment but apparently having the money in the bank to do so is disgusting behaviour and was only going to end one way. 

I imagine they have been called and chased countless times as landlords don't just pay for court proceedings for fun.

How is it disgusting that she couldn’t get to her money because of the fraud on her acocunt the bank shut her account for 2 months , she couldn’t buy food or electric. 

How dare you try call this disgusting when she couldn’t even afford to feed herself through this 

How have they got the money to pay this right away but yet haven't done so? That's the strange thing. Either the account is blocked and they can't get the money or it isn't and they should have paid him.

The account was blocked due to fraudulent activity and them taking her money and wiping her clean out 

hence why she couldn’t pay 

propertyrental

Standingstrong said:

saajan_12 said:

Standingstrong said:

She’s gone through her notice papers and they haven’t included the rental statement ? Does that mean notice is valid ?


and when she pays off the arrears in full this week will the notice expire? as there is no arrears 

she’s going to pay December January and February so basically 3 months rent this week 

The rental statement is good practice, to show the court the LL has done everything before escalating to court and incurring the fees etc. However its not 100% required and as long as the LL can prove the 2+ months arrears, they will get a possession order. 

The issue is if friend really wanted to pay rent on time, then they'd have paid it as soon as the account got unlocked. Was that really *today* since you mention she can now pay the arrears? They wouldn't have waited for the notice or to write a letter, or just for this week to start. 

She rang agents today and asked to speak to the women and they said not in till tomorrow and she said to the man on the phone can you tell me more please and he said no got to wait Until that girl is in office tomorrow 

That does not stop her paying the rent owed. The sooner it's paid in full, the better the chance the LL/agent will go no further.

Indeed, why is she planning to speak to 'the girl'? Presumably to explain about the fraud and ask for that to be taken into account, and for court proceedings not to be started? That conversation will go much better if the rent is already paid.
Pay it. Today.

if he does go to court they can’t do nothing about arrears as it would’ve been paid , 

Obviously if the rent is paid up to date, the court cannot order her to pay anything other than the LL's court costs.

so what your trying to say is my friend IF it does go to court she can defend the ground 11 and 17

As has been expained multiple times, eviction undr Gs 11 or 17 is discretionary - up to the judge to decide. So any defence ofered may help the judge decide in the tenant's favour. But there's no guarantee.

_Penny_Dreadful

Standingstrong said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

housebuyer143 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

macman said:

I think your friend needs to accept that relations with the LL have broken down irretrievably and that, even if the arrears are paid in full tomorrow, the LL is likely to continue with seeking to gain possession under 11 and 17.
I doubt they want to risk further loss of income by waiting to serve an S21 in November, if that is the end of the fixed term TA.

No sane landlord would walk into a court hoping to get a possession order using two discretionary grounds with a Section 8 notice.  As all communication thus far has been with the letting agent I wonder if adding grounds 10, 11 and 17 were the idea of an over-zealous letting agent rater than the landlord.

When we did section 8 notices at the letting agent I worked for, you always put every available ground down on the section 8 in case the arrears got cleared before the court date. Some landlords still wished to press forward on discretionary grounds. Some landlords I know got possession this way.

If you are doing it anyway, what harm does including the additional grounds do 

When you go to court off the back of a Section 8 using a mandatory ground then providing you can prove the mandatory ground e.g. 2 months rent is owed the tenants cannot defend the case and the judge has to grant the possession order even if he/she thinks eviction is a bit unfair e.g. when someone’s bank account has been frozen so they cannot access their money to pay the rent. 

On the other hand if you only walk into court with a discretionary ground(s) you not only have to prove the condition for the ground is met but the judge has to deem it reasonable for the tenant to be evicted because of it. For example, say you walk in with just ground 10 and at the time of the hearing the tenant owes you £1, yes the condition for ground 10 is met but no judge is going to grant a possession order over £1. 

With discretionary grounds the tenant is entitled to defend it and if they choose to put in a defence the case will not be concluded during the initial hearing as it would be with a mandatory ground.  You then have to wait weeks/months for the next hearing. The case can become drawn out and therefore expensive meanwhile the tenant, if in receipt of benefits could be entitled to legal aid.  It’s much easier for the landlord to issue a Section 21 at the earliest time possible. 

So when she pays the arrears off this week even though the landlord might not go ahead after it all being paid , 

if he does go to court they can’t do nothing about arrears as it would’ve been paid , 

so what your trying to say is my friend IF it does go to court she can defend the ground 11 and 17 ? 

If your friend pays off all the arrears before it goes to court the ground 8 will fail leaving only discretionary grounds which your friend can submit a defence for. As I’ve said earlier though I doubt any sane landlord would walk into court with just a couple of discretionary grounds. 

MattMattMattUK

Standingstrong said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

housebuyer143 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

macman said:

I think your friend needs to accept that relations with the LL have broken down irretrievably and that, even if the arrears are paid in full tomorrow, the LL is likely to continue with seeking to gain possession under 11 and 17.
I doubt they want to risk further loss of income by waiting to serve an S21 in November, if that is the end of the fixed term TA.

No sane landlord would walk into a court hoping to get a possession order using two discretionary grounds with a Section 8 notice.  As all communication thus far has been with the letting agent I wonder if adding grounds 10, 11 and 17 were the idea of an over-zealous letting agent rater than the landlord.

When we did section 8 notices at the letting agent I worked for, you always put every available ground down on the section 8 in case the arrears got cleared before the court date. Some landlords still wished to press forward on discretionary grounds. Some landlords I know got possession this way.

If you are doing it anyway, what harm does including the additional grounds do 

When you go to court off the back of a Section 8 using a mandatory ground then providing you can prove the mandatory ground e.g. 2 months rent is owed the tenants cannot defend the case and the judge has to grant the possession order even if he/she thinks eviction is a bit unfair e.g. when someone’s bank account has been frozen so they cannot access their money to pay the rent. 

On the other hand if you only walk into court with a discretionary ground(s) you not only have to prove the condition for the ground is met but the judge has to deem it reasonable for the tenant to be evicted because of it. For example, say you walk in with just ground 10 and at the time of the hearing the tenant owes you £1, yes the condition for ground 10 is met but no judge is going to grant a possession order over £1. 

With discretionary grounds the tenant is entitled to defend it and if they choose to put in a defence the case will not be concluded during the initial hearing as it would be with a mandatory ground.  You then have to wait weeks/months for the next hearing. The case can become drawn out and therefore expensive meanwhile the tenant, if in receipt of benefits could be entitled to legal aid.  It’s much easier for the landlord to issue a Section 21 at the earliest time possible. 

So when she pays the arrears off this week even though the landlord might not go ahead after it all being paid , 

if he does go to court they can’t do nothing about arrears as it would’ve been paid , 

so what your trying to say is my friend IF it does go to court she can defend the ground 11 and 17 ? 

The fact she has the capacity to pay but still has not and is instead messing around with phone calls and letters reflects very badly on her and certainly is not going to help her case with the landlord. I suspect that she might have got away with this if she had been open and sensible with the landlord, but if I were in the landlords position with all the messing around still going on I would want her out as well and I would use any legitimate means to get rid of her.

Wonka_2

Standingstrong said:

born_again said:

Standingstrong said:

3card said:

Standingstrong said:

UnderOffer said:

Standingstrong said:

LegallyLandlord said:

Is it during the fixed term period? If not, the landlord could always serve a s21 notice or wait and do it if the relationship has broken down. 

Shouting is never a good approach for trying to win someone round when they are ultimately in a position of strength. 

In a fixed 12 month AST expires in November this year

That’s probably made the Landlord very wary of their new tenant. They paid 1 month in Nov, then defaulted in Dec and Jan? Not good. 

But it’s not her fault her account got shut for fraud since November tho? The la was understandably fine and so was the LL

12 month ago i had a tenant that was behind on her rent. On the 2nd month she sent me a screenshot of notification from her bank confirming her account had been blocked but it showed it was for a 1st Party fraud. This was after she told me that someone had hacked her account and this was the problem

After looking into it and finding out what 1st party fraud was i continued to kick her out using S8 G8, 10 & 11 and finally got possession.
So you will see that 'sometimes' its not possible to take peoples words at face value

Good for you I suppose 

Did you get your non P/X £20k debt sorted?

Yes I did get it sorted , this is about my friend do not derail thread on other situations thanks 

In which case courtesy would be to update that open thread with the end result - many gave their time and advice to help 

macman

Seems fairly clear that what the OP's friend wants to do first is offer to pay the arrears on the basis that the G10 and 11 is not proceeded with. In which case she needs to extract that in writing before she pays up.
That might not be very ethical, but from her own point of view it's probably the best course of action.
Whether it simply stiffens the LL's resolve to end the tenancy anyway is not something anyone can know.