Octopus Heat Pumps

matt_drummer

I think I know where the £500 quote comes from.

When mine was first installed they were offering installations at £3,000 which is the same as £500 now that the grant has increased from £5,000 to £7,500.

If your heat loss is less than 7kW they can install a 7kW Daikin. This is an old heat pump that uses R410a refrigerant.

I suspect they still have a stock of them they want to move.

I am pretty confident that they don't install any Daikin R32 Monobloc heat pumps for £500

stripling

@matt_drummer

I honestly don't know.

One person suggested it might have been because I didn't have an EPC when I did the online quote and maybe that impacts their AI-based 'guestimate' of the heat pump size /rad upgrades. (I have an EPC D rating now). 
It's quite an odd system to offer an online fixed quote that's only based on 2 questions. 
But really I don't know because everyone who applies now clicks the same button for the same 2 Qs for the fixed quote. 

BG give online quotes but they are not fixed - mine dropped quite a bit when they did the heat loss survey.

I can't change the price but that's why I'm doing my best to get the design temp at 45º + a few bigger rads. That way at least I'm in with a chance to tweak the system for max efficiency. And that's why I stuck with them because the installers seem to be on the same page as me - it's sales who were a bit tough.

I'd love the kind of monitoring like you have but Github fries my brain and the posh monitoring set-ups are above my pay grade. 
But I'm sure I'll be picking everyone's brains for suggestions once the HP is up and running. 😁

matt_drummer

If you can't run to a heat meter then you really only have two choices.

Espaltherma using Home Assistant (which is a nightmare/bodge/joke for me) or nothing.

You'll likely struggle with nothing, it's virtually impossible to make changes and see what happens.

Daikin heat pumps don't work how we might expect and there's a lot of adjustment possible.

What heat pump are you getting?

What's your heat loss? What did they calculate and what do you think it is?

What is your new total radiator capacity at dT50c?

From this I find it easy to estimate how well it might work.

Are you planning on fitting trvs? 

stripling

@matt_drummer

What heat pump are you getting?
Daikin 6kw

What's your heat loss? What did they calculate and what do you think it is?

Octopus was 4.6
My calc was 5.6   - this was via Heat Punk & Podesta's quick method that HG also endorse using gas consumption minus water heating and divide by 2,900. (He spells it out in detail on his YouTube channel)
(BG was close to mine too)

What is your new total radiator capacity at dT50c?

4931 watts

Are you planning on fitting trvs? 

I have them already but I want to run an open loop system so I won't turn them down. 

matt_drummer

I have 55,000W to 60,000W of radiators at dT 50c (I have fans on my radiators to boost output so difficult to say exactly)

I had about 18,000W at dT50c when Octopus installed, that was about 8,000W at dT30c (mean flow of 50c and room temperature of 20c)

Are you sure you have only 4,931W at dT50c (that is mean flow at 70c and room at 20c)?

Your heat loss is more than mine, at -3c I am around 4kW.

I have the 8kW Daikin, no point in getting the 4 or 6 as they are the same, just software limited in heating mode.

matt_drummer

If your heat loss is really 5.6kW then I would insist on the 8kW heat pump.

At the flow temperature you will need to run I think you will struggle to get enough out of the 6kW because of defrosting.

Basically, I think you'll be cold.

The 8kW will be no less efficient than the 4 or 6 as they are the same.

I guess you got 4,931W from your Octopus radiator schedule?

If so, you won't even be able to get the full output of the 6kW heat pump at the design temperature which I would assume is something like 20c indoors at -2.3c outside?

It will never do it based on my experience, it will be defrosting so much at times that you'll be luck to see about 4kW of heat.

stripling

matt_drummer said:

I think I know where the £500 quote comes from.

When mine was first installed they were offering installations at £3,000 which is the same as £500 now that the grant has increased from £5,000 to £7,500.

If your heat loss is less than 7kW they can install a 7kW Daikin. This is an old heat pump that uses R410a refrigerant.

I suspect they still have a stock of them they want to move.

I am pretty confident that they don't install any Daikin R32 Monobloc heat pumps for £500

Here 'tis: 

matt_drummer

MP1995 said:

So this is the same person that kicks octopus on various threads despite being a previous pioneer tracker v1 customer like ourselves (we have saved thousands of pounds) and is now kicking them once again over their heat pump quote.

A bit like wrf you realky can't please some people, everyone is out to do them on money and making too much off them.

My inkling, after watching some YouTube quite and install and from the posts here and other forums is that Octopus were initially making a loss on installs, getting up to speed. Now they are breaking even and into small profit.

Octopus are really good at installing heat pumps at a really good price. They do a great job, as good as anybody.

They are rubbish at system design and have no idea how the heat pumps they install work in real life.

It's a problem.

All my opinion, of course.

MP1995

matt_drummer said:

MP1995 said:

So this is the same person that kicks octopus on various threads despite being a previous pioneer tracker v1 customer like ourselves (we have saved thousands of pounds) and is now kicking them once again over their heat pump quote.

A bit like wrf you realky can't please some people, everyone is out to do them on money and making too much off them.

My inkling, after watching some YouTube quite and install and from the posts here and other forums is that Octopus were initially making a loss on installs, getting up to speed. Now they are breaking even and into small profit.

Octopus are really good at installing heat pumps at a really good price. They do a great job, as good as anybody.

They are rubbish at system design and have no idea how the heat pumps they install work in real life.

It's a problem.

All my opinion, of course.

I was hoping the team up with heat geeks might lead to some lower flow temp designed systems....hoped....and not just the use of the heat geek "supposedly designed" kitchen cupboard hot water store.

Spies

Interesting you say they don't quote for bathrooms as they are replacing my radiator in there without being prompted?