Overpayment letter sent for £20,000 - Pension age error / PLEASE HELP!

HillStreetBlues

With council tax,  if your parents were paying any (each council sets their own council tax reduction) once you mum gets pension credit the council tax must be zero.

Rubyroobs

nachfee said:

calcotti said:

elsien said:

How old is your mum and when did she reach pension age? 

Is there any sort of breakdown on her journal to show how they’ve reached the 20K figure? 

All UC paid since she reached pension age will be an overpayment.

OP, I think you need to get expert advice. When you go to CAb go with all the paperwork for both mum and dad with full financial details including all details of what benefits they been getting. They may be able to calculate what the benefit entitlement should have been if correctly claimed and then I would ask them to help them draft a letter to argue that DWP should offset the UC overpayment against the correct entitlement.

To be clear - has mum been getting her State Pension?

Yes, that would be the best case scenario and what is hoping. 

I will call on Monday and hope to push for that, it makes sense. We called PC today because UC just said basically she is over 65, anything should be with PC from now on. So I started the claim for PC and are awaiting for the callback. 

She has not been getting her State Pension. We found out today, through her bank statements that she didn’t get her UC.  We called and they said it was closed due to age.
They realised this after my dads passing as I had to call them to inform them because the council has failed to give me the reference number for the Tell Us Once service. 

Due to cancelling the telephone contract, instead of moving move to a separate one they just closed her number automatically so she never got any text messages from DWP.

So after UC saying it was closed, I quickly started the claim for PC so she doesn’t go months without money. No one can help for this month. UC says they can’t help PC say we need to wait for callback.
The way they have design this system
in my humble opinion is a recipe for disaster. Many people that age are not that literate with computers and bureaucracy.
They should at least send an email or message in the journal that the age is changing soon and UC will be stopped. 

It has been a complete unfortunate and messy situation. 

Unfortunately some pension credit claims are taking four or five months to process currently. Sorry I know that's not what you want to hear. I would put a claim in asap for housing benefit and council tax reduction if you haven't already done so as that will likely be awarded more quickly and then is she is awarded Guarantee pension credit she should get rent covered in full.

Alice_Holt

 My thoughts on this align with calcotti's.

i) I'd be disputing the amount of UC payable. I'd argue that the amount recoverable should be after deduction of all Pension Credit and Housing Benefit, due after Sept 2021.   
I'd run that argument to tribunal. That the amount repayable is only the excess UC receivable over and above the amounts due had PC & HB been claimed. 
(For legacy benefits offsetting was taken into account, and it's possible there may be some case law concerning UC). 

ii) Because this is complicated I'd ask the local CA office to get guidance from their Expert Advice Team (EAT), particularly around if (i) is worthwhile.

iii) I'd ask UC exercise their discretion (given the circumstances) not to recover the overpayment.
(But sadly, this discretion is rarely used.
However, not having an entitlement to SP, but only to another means-tested benefit, may be a consideration.)

iii) I'd certainly involve the MP when things become clearer. If you are allocated a caseworker from your local CA office - be guided by them as to the best time to ask the MP to intervene with the DWP.

HillStreetBlues

Not sure if this will be any help in your case, but even Government websites state.

If one of you has reached State Pension age

If only one of you has reached State Pension age, you and your partner can still claim Universal Credit as a couple. Your Universal Credit claim will stop when you both reach State Pension age.

So why wasn't stopped? they must have the information on record to do this.

It seems because of information like this, they would have thought their UC stopped at that time.
Also you could point out that it wasn't a change of circumstance as their birth day that they had on record hadn't changed.
(UC had all the information required to correctly end the claim)



 

calcotti

HillStreetBlues said:

With council tax,  if your parents were paying any (each council sets their own council tax reduction)

Only for working age claimants - the rules are set nationally for pension age claimants. I think you probably realised this because you also said

HillStreetBlues said:

..once you mum gets pension credit the council tax must be zero.

Regarding your other post

HillStreetBlues said:

Not sure if this will be any help in your case, but even Government websites state.

If one of you has reached State Pension age

If only one of you has reached State Pension age, you and your partner can still claim Universal Credit as a couple. Your Universal Credit claim will stop when you both reach State Pension age.

So why wasn't stopped? they must have the information on record to do this.

It seems because of information like this, they would have thought their UC stopped at that time.
Also you could point out that it wasn't a change of circumstance as their birth day that they had on record hadn't changed.
(UC had all the information required to correctly end the claim)

We’ve covered this in previous posts.
UC didn’t stop because UC made a mistake. This is official error. However UC regulations say that overpayments of UC are always recoverable. Despite the assurances, mentioned in one of my earlier replies, that DWP would not chase recovery of overpayments resulting from official error the practice has been to chase all overpayments, as permitted by the legislation. The legislation was a deliberate departure from previous legacy benefit rules which excluded recovery of overpayments caused by official error. The UC rules removes the incentive for DWP to get claims paid correctly and, when required, revised in a timely fashion knowing that if they make a mistake that can recover anyway.

HillStreetBlues

calcotti said:

HillStreetBlues said:

With council tax,  if your parents were paying any (each council sets their own council tax reduction)

Only for working age claimants - the rules are set nationally for pension age claimants. I think you probably realised this because you also said

HillStreetBlues said:

..once you mum gets pension credit the council tax must be zero.

There are national rules for pension aged claimants, (The Council Tax Benefit (Persons who have attained the qualifying age for state pension credit) Regulations 2006)
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/216/regulation/16

CT deduction is still based on their income and savings.

1) For the purposes of these Regulations, “income” means income of any of the following descriptions—

social security benefits, other than retirement pension income or any of the following benefits—

(i)disability living allowance;

(ii)attendance allowance payable under section 64 of the Act;

(iii)an increase of disablement pension under section 104 or 105 of the Act;

(iv)a payment under regulations made in exercise of the power conferred by paragraph 7(2)(b) of Part 2 of Schedule 8 to the Act F4;

(v)an increase of an allowance payable in respect of constant attendance under paragraph 4 of Part 1 of Schedule 8 to the Act;

(vi)child benefit;

(vii)any guardian's allowance payable under section 77 of the Act;

(viii)any increase for a dependant, other than the claimant's partner, payable in accordance with Part 4 of the Act;

(ix)any social fund payment made under Part 8 of the Act;

(x)Christmas bonus payable under Part 10 of the Act;

(xi)housing benefit;

(xii)council tax benefit;

(xiii)bereavement payment F5;

(xiv)statutory sick pay;

(xv)statutory maternity pay

UC is not in the benefits exempt.

So while getting UC (albeit wrongly)  the council can class UC as  income, and base CTR  on that income.

So it is possible that while getting UC  there was some CT to pay. 




EDIT to add link

calcotti

My comment was to point out that councils cannot set their own rules for pension age claimants.

HillStreetBlues

Your comment was linked to council tax reduction, that councils set their own rules for, as long as it is in keeping with the above legislation,I think you probably realised this now.

calcotti

HillStreetBlues said:

Your comment was linked to council tax reduction, that councils set their own rules

No they do ‘set’ the rules for pension age claimants. The rules for pension age claimants are prescribed. Although councils have to have a scheme they have to adopt  the prescribed rules in respect of pension age claimants.

HillStreetBlues

calcotti said:

No they do ‘set’ the rules for pension age claimants. The rules for pension age claimants are prescribed. Although councils have to have a scheme they have to adopt  the prescribed rules in respect of pension age claimants.

But any council is able to go beyond these rules  if it's in that persons interest
So council A might be able to charge X under the rules, but council B might exempt  X being charged, so council B has set a different rule.