How you going in January?

chris1973

If 7c - 10c is considered mild enough to be comfortable without heating even during the hours of darkness, I don't want to read of people wishing and cheering on another 42c heatwave come July and August!!!, 17c all summer long should be more than enough to sit contentedly on the Beach!. I'm assuming most of this forum membership must be in London or Essex to consider the last few weeks to have been mild, as i've still been seeing 12c in the bedroom at 6AM when getting up for work, pretty much the same as everyday since around November.

I use the GCH every weekend as a 'treat', I ran it from 6PM to 11.30pm tonight, and managed to get the living room up to 17.4c, the Bathroom to 15.2c and Bedroom to 16c. That is four double 6800 BTU radiators with TRV's and the consumption was 105 KW or just over a tenner worth of Gas for the period, last year running it for the same period would have cost about £2.40.

 I assume because the room thermostat never reached the 19.5c setting, that the 24kw boiler ran continuously for the full 5 1/2 hour period, hence the massive gas usage. Unfortunately that is how long it takes to heat up the rooms from their ambient 12c or 13c

I'm envious of those in modern uber insulated new builds who seem to heat their homes for the entire day, for the same cost as the first hour of running my boiler!. No idea, where my heat is going, its a 1939 built semi detached, modern D/G windows, cavity wall insulation, foil behind the radiators, thermal curtains over windows and both doors and loft insulation almost up to the ceiling, but it still loses heat at around 2,5c per hour, until it gets down to its ambient overnight temp of 10c - 12c. I put it down to the 15 foot high ceilings.

I'm fortunate that during the rest of the week I use a diesel generator running off used veg oil to generate power to run a few convector heaters and a bathroom 1kw bar heater to heat key areas, essentially free power and heat. I just run the Central heating at weekends to give the neighbours a break from the noise of the genny, (but needs must!.).

But at a tenner day, it would not be viable or affordable for me to run the Central Heating every Evening, 7 days a week. I don't envisage energy prices ever coming down again, in fact I think £1000 a month may become a reality for some  households in the coming year or two, hence why i'm looking at longer term solutions for running the Generator for longer periods, and Electric Heating.

Spoonie_Turtle

chris1973 said:

No idea, where my heat is going, its a 1939 built semi detached, modern D/G windows, cavity wall insulation, foil behind the radiators, thermal curtains over windows and both doors and loft insulation almost up to the ceiling, but it still loses heat at around 2,5c per hour, until it gets down to its ambient overnight temp of 10c - 12c. I put it down to the 15 foot high ceilings.

I was reading your post and wondering how it was so hard to heat too - then I read the bit in bold.  Yeah, that'll do it!

Our ceilings (~1940s semi, DG, CWI) are about half the height of yours.  I can't imagine the cost of trying to keep a house at 18°C in the daytime like we do with double the air space to heat.  Any visiting moths must be lovely and toasty whilst you're all still shivering.

FreeBear

chris1973 said: No idea, where my heat is going, its a 1939 built semi detached, modern D/G windows, cavity wall insulation, foil behind the radiators, thermal curtains over windows and both doors and loft insulation almost up to the ceiling, but it still loses heat at around 2,5c per hour, until it gets down to its ambient overnight temp of 10c - 12c. I put it down to the 15 foot high ceilings.

1928/9 semi here that is a mix of cavity & solid wall construction. A decent amount of loft insulation, new DG windows/doors, and have insulated the walls in a couple of areas so far. I'm losing around 2°C in 8 hours with sub-zero temperatures outside. Ceilings are not as high as yours though (9' downstairs, 8' up), but I doubt that would account for the difference..

Go round and plug all those cold draughts - Around the junction between skirting & floorboards, around the windows (especially if you have timber trim in the reveals), and stuff an old pillow or chimney sheep up any unused flues. See if you can get hold of a thermal imaging camera - Octopus customers can get one on loan, some councils also have some available - Identify where the heat losses are occurring, and take steps to plug the gaps.

chris1973

Spoonie_Turtle said:

chris1973 said:

No idea, where my heat is going, its a 1939 built semi detached, modern D/G windows, cavity wall insulation, foil behind the radiators, thermal curtains over windows and both doors and loft insulation almost up to the ceiling, but it still loses heat at around 2,5c per hour, until it gets down to its ambient overnight temp of 10c - 12c. I put it down to the 15 foot high ceilings.

I was reading your post and wondering how it was so hard to heat too - then I read the bit in bold.  Yeah, that'll do it!

Our ceilings (~1940s semi, DG, CWI) are about half the height of yours.  I can't imagine the cost of trying to keep a house at 18°C in the daytime like we do with double the air space to heat.  Any visiting moths must be lovely and toasty whilst you're all still shivering.

Yes, i'm awaiting to hear the Government's plan of how they are going to modify houses like this one ready for Heat Pumps in 2030!, in the Town where I live , this era and design of house is very common, yes we have estates with 60s - 80's builds and other areas with brand new builds but i'd say more than half the town's population are living with high ceilings, and probably tens if not hundreds of thousands of similar properties all over the UK.

If a GCH boiler on its full setting with radiators at 80c won't heat a room to a comfortable temperature in over 5 hours, i'm not sure a heat pump with a 50c - 60c output is going to do much. But i'm sure they have all of the answers!.

Not an easy solution to fix, having full length bay windows would negate having a false ceiling fitted. Last year I had a ceiling fan fitted in the bedroom which can be reversed, supposedly to push the rising warm air back into the room - that was a complete waste of time for anybody reading this who is considering the same route!..

FreeBear

chris1973 said: If a GCH boiler on its full setting with radiators at 80c won't heat a room to a comfortable temperature in over 5 hours, i'm not sure a heat pump with a 50c - 60c output is going to do much. But i'm sure they have all of the answers!.

That would suggest that your radiators are undersized for the room (or very poorly balanced). If you were to switch to a heat pump, new larger radiators would most certainly be required.

flossyblog

1983 terrace of 8 houses, 3 floors, doubled glazed, no roof insulation, laminate flooring on the ground floor, ceiling height 2.40m, blinds on windows, no heavy curtain on front door which is mostly glass. The house resting temperature 16°C without heating.

I wouldn't say it's comfortable all the time, made bearable with extra clothing and blanket.  On days when it's too much, heating switched on manually for an hour around midday. Bath before bedtime.

Electric

Jan 2022 average kWh 6 per day 

Jan 2023 average kWh 6 per day

Gas

Jan 2022 average  4.12 m3 per day 

Jan 2023 average  0.85 m3 per day

peter3hg

Where do you live? I doubt any 1930s semi have 15ft ceiling height as built. Most are 8ft with some maybe getting up to 10ft.

RavingMad

Living in the northwest and the bedroom is 14 degrees this morning. We've used 650 kWh this month but it was 2k last Jan so I think that's ok.  

Mstty

@chris1973

Once a week heating in winter will be very costly, regardless of your surprisingly high ceiling for a 1930's property.

If you haven't been regularly heating a property you are just going to be throwing heat at the fabric of the house and that's why it's taking all day to reach the temperatures you achieved. 

 Out of interest how close are your neighbours to your vegetable oil generator?

Lastly have you considered moving to a more energy efficient property if that's an option?

markin

chris1973 said:

If 7c - 10c is considered mild enough to be comfortable without heating even during the hours of darkness, I don't want to read of people wishing and cheering on another 42c heatwave come July and August!!!, 17c all summer long should be more than enough to sit contentedly on the Beach!. I'm assuming most of this forum membership must be in London or Essex to consider the last few weeks to have been mild, as i've still been seeing 12c in the bedroom at 6AM when getting up for work, pretty much the same as everyday since around November.

I use the GCH every weekend as a 'treat', I ran it from 6PM to 11.30pm tonight, and managed to get the living room up to 17.4c, the Bathroom to 15.2c and Bedroom to 16c. That is four double 6800 BTU radiators with TRV's and the consumption was 105 KW or just over a tenner worth of Gas for the period, last year running it for the same period would have cost about £2.40.

 I assume because the room thermostat never reached the 19.5c setting, that the 24kw boiler ran continuously for the full 5 1/2 hour period, hence the massive gas usage. Unfortunately that is how long it takes to heat up the rooms from their ambient 12c or 13c

I'm envious of those in modern uber insulated new builds who seem to heat their homes for the entire day, for the same cost as the first hour of running my boiler!. No idea, where my heat is going, its a 1939 built semi detached, modern D/G windows, cavity wall insulation, foil behind the radiators, thermal curtains over windows and both doors and loft insulation almost up to the ceiling, but it still loses heat at around 2,5c per hour, until it gets down to its ambient overnight temp of 10c - 12c. I put it down to the 15 foot high ceilings.

I'm fortunate that during the rest of the week I use a diesel generator running off used veg oil to generate power to run a few convector heaters and a bathroom 1kw bar heater to heat key areas, essentially free power and heat. I just run the Central heating at weekends to give the neighbours a break from the noise of the genny, (but needs must!.).

But at a tenner day, it would not be viable or affordable for me to run the Central Heating every Evening, 7 days a week. I don't envisage energy prices ever coming down again, in fact I think £1000 a month may become a reality for some  households in the coming year or two, hence why i'm looking at longer term solutions for running the Generator for longer periods, and Electric Heating.

Bit in Bold, Wind chill will make it 5 - 10c cooler when outside or on a windy beach, Most homes will happily sit 6c warmer for very little energy along with solar gain and the heat from cooking, pc, tv, ect. 



You are spending 2 days to heat up the 6-7 tones of bricks and plaster and drive out the damp, Running at a very low flow temp on Condensing boiler  And to 16c 24/7 should result in a far lower daily usage, obviously the weekly total would be higher than just your 10hrs flat out, but you would be more comfortable.