Please come back

RetSol

horsewithnoname said:

RetSol said:

Twenty or so years ago, I spent a total of over twelve months on sick leave on full civil service pay.

My experience is that it is possible to return to work following long-term sickness, particularly where there is support available to do so.

As @zagfles points out however, it may not be so easy to do in today's workplace culture. 

Not sure how you managed that, for the near 40 years I’ve been a civil servant it’s been 6 (now 5) moths full pay 6 (now 5) months half pay then pension rate. 

It was two periods of six months, not 12 consecutive months. 

marycanary

I'm employed in local government managing teams working with people on very low incomes. So I say this as someone with real, up to date, everyday experience, not, "I used to know something about this" or "a cousin's friend told me."  There are some people gaming the system, possibly by working cash in hand to supplement their benefits, but it's difficult to get more money by having children because of the benefits cap so I am surprised all expert scroungers haven't worked that out by now. There are also many honest people struggling. Every day we see,

• Mental health problems which are much worse than they were 10 or 20 years ago. Not just depression and anxiety which seem to be ubiquitous but very serious mental health issues where people revolve around a circle of being in the hospital, coming out with little or no support only to be readmitted. In the meantime, they can cause chaos in their families and communities.
• People with personality disorders who to the layperson appear to have MH problems but the professionals say do not and can not be treated. There are no support services for them. Some can not hold down a job or keep a stable tenancy.  I have no idea why the number is increasing or where they were and what they did before.
• Drug abuse and assorted problems like drug induced psychosis. These are much more prevalent than they were 10 years ago. It seems the police have given up the fight and instead leave the dealers to get on with their trade. Even when known dealers are pointed out by the community no action is taken. Many users are incapable of taking work of any type or even keeping a tenancy without a great deal of support. 
• The frankly unemployable. Often, but not always older people with limited education and some health problems. They are unsuited to office work, too unattractive for hospitality and not strong enough for manual labour, assuming there is any to be had. I wonder if it was one of these people who knew they would not be offered an office job so to save their pride said FU on the application for a pension post?
• Lots and lots of desperate people, often families in work with children who can no longer make ends meet. Or older people in insecure work.  They may have debt or have had some bad luck like a period of unemployment (much work around here is seasonal), loss of a privately rented tenancy or a period sickness. Sometimes they have made silly decisions like moving in with an unsuitable partner or taking a job which needs a reliable vehicle when their car is old and decrepit. 

A major problem is the cost of housing and the lack of supply. Rents have increased faster than wages so households become homeless and have to spend long periods in temporary accommodation or have to spend an unsustainably large amount of their income on rent. Families also struggle to stay in work without reliable, affordable child care, especially for very young children. It's hard to hold down a job if you have to take time off at short notice because your toddler or 5 year old has vomiting and diarrhoea or a cold so they can't go to nursery or school.

How you get any of these groups into sustainable, long-term employment I don't know. How low would benefits have to be to make a mother leave a child in unsuitable childcare so she could go to work or make a person with psychosis well?

There seems to be a never ending tsunami of need. After 40 years I've had enough and I will retire in March when I turned 60.

Just my two penn'orths. 

nigelbb

Albermarle said:

MikeJXE said:

After reading moist of the posts on here I find it surprising almost everyone retired early, did no one think enough of their job to stay longer, wasn't there no job satisfaction ? I'm 82 and had to retire at 63 because my wife became ill and I had to look after her, I did that for 10 years till she passed. Now I'm raring to go and start again, When I was working in the construction industry I couldn't wait to get up and go to work, I'm not fit enough to do that now but I am fit enough to do something so I applied for a job, if I get it thats when my life will begin again. 

Firstly you have to be clear that posters on here are not a representative cross section of the public. People actively interested in pensions are more likely to be the type to have the resources to retire early, and/or their interest in pensions etc is driven by a desire to retire early.
Secondly retiring early has no set age. The average retirement age is around 62/63. So is retiring before then classed as early? Or is anything before state pension age 'early' ? Personally I think 55 is early, but anything from 60 onwards is normal.
Many posters on here actively hate working ( or hated it) Some like it but are winding down. Personally I was OK with most aspects of it, but >35 years in one area was enough, so retired at 62.5 ( Mr Average  )

Unfortunately your arguments are based on an entirely false premise possibly to justify your own early retirement. In fact the average retirement age for men is just over 65 for men & for women is 64.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/economic-labour-market-status-of-individuals-aged-50-and-over-trends-over-time-september-2021/economic-labour-market-status-of-individuals-aged-50-and-over-trends-over-time-september-2021#average-age-of-exit-from-the-labour-market

horsewithnoname

RetSol said:

horsewithnoname said:

RetSol said:

Twenty or so years ago, I spent a total of over twelve months on sick leave on full civil service pay.

My experience is that it is possible to return to work following long-term sickness, particularly where there is support available to do so.

As @zagfles points out however, it may not be so easy to do in today's workplace culture. 

Not sure how you managed that, for the near 40 years I’ve been a civil servant it’s been 6 (now 5) moths full pay 6 (now 5) months half pay then pension rate. 

It was two periods of six months, not 12 consecutive months. 

And at least 4 years apart per the rules. 

Albermarle

nigelbb said:

Albermarle said:

MikeJXE said:

After reading moist of the posts on here I find it surprising almost everyone retired early, did no one think enough of their job to stay longer, wasn't there no job satisfaction ? I'm 82 and had to retire at 63 because my wife became ill and I had to look after her, I did that for 10 years till she passed. Now I'm raring to go and start again, When I was working in the construction industry I couldn't wait to get up and go to work, I'm not fit enough to do that now but I am fit enough to do something so I applied for a job, if I get it thats when my life will begin again. 

Firstly you have to be clear that posters on here are not a representative cross section of the public. People actively interested in pensions are more likely to be the type to have the resources to retire early, and/or their interest in pensions etc is driven by a desire to retire early.
Secondly retiring early has no set age. The average retirement age is around 62/63. So is retiring before then classed as early? Or is anything before state pension age 'early' ? Personally I think 55 is early, but anything from 60 onwards is normal.
Many posters on here actively hate working ( or hated it) Some like it but are winding down. Personally I was OK with most aspects of it, but >35 years in one area was enough, so retired at 62.5 ( Mr Average  )

Unfortunately your arguments are based on an entirely false premise possibly to justify your own early retirement. In fact the average retirement age for men is just over 65 for men & for women is 64.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/economic-labour-market-status-of-individuals-aged-50-and-over-trends-over-time-september-2021/economic-labour-market-status-of-individuals-aged-50-and-over-trends-over-time-september-2021#average-age-of-exit-from-the-labour-market

Thanks for the up to date info. The 62/63 age range has been mentioned on the forum more than once, but from the link it would appear to be well out of date, as the retirement age appears to have crept up over the last decade or so.
By the way I do not feel any need to justify my 'early' retirement. I was just commenting ( like others) on the post of MikeJXE, who has a different viewpoint from most on here.

saucer

nigelbb 

Unfortunately your arguments are based on an entirely false premise possibly to justify your own early retirement. 

Why would someone feel the need to ‘justify’ early retirement, particularly on a forum dedicated to money saving in the context of pension planning?

SarahB16

Grumpy_chap said:

There is a real issue with those that reached some financial flexibility that the work place seems unable to facilitate the worker that does not need to work for the money as the primary cause.  Everything is geared to those that want to desperately climb the ladder and be rewarded through increased salary.  Those that have financial flexibility may well want a less-than-full-time role and just do the core job without being concerned with strategy away-days and all the other activities that burn time.

There are some organisations that definitely do offer this flexibility, e.g. allowing colleagues to reduce their days for example. 

I am making assumptions here but perhaps for a slightly older gentleman like yourself you may not appreciate the wealth of knowledge that you have.  I know you refer to strategy away-days that burn time but this can be a good opportunity for you to mix with colleagues that you may not typically interact with.  It really is a good opportunity for younger colleagues to build a relationship with you/older colleagues nearing retirement so if they have any questions they feel comfortable asking you when you return back to your desks.  They will see you as an approachable chap that is happy to answer their questions and your organisation will appreciate that you are passing on your knowledge.    

If you have your head down all the time concentrating on 'the core job' these opportunities will be lost.  Companies always need to have succession plans and strategy away-days (or something similar) whilst I do appreciate 50% of the time spent on those days can be a waste of time but they do also provide opportunities.  Key things are to ensure colleagues are placed on tables with colleagues that they would not typically spend time with when doing their core job.  

Regarding any other activities that burn your time I think it would be a case of discussing this with your line manager and both of you consider if it is a good use of the company's time.   

RetSol

horsewithnoname said:

RetSol said:

horsewithnoname said:

RetSol said:

Twenty or so years ago, I spent a total of over twelve months on sick leave on full civil service pay.

My experience is that it is possible to return to work following long-term sickness, particularly where there is support available to do so.

As @zagfles points out however, it may not be so easy to do in today's workplace culture. 

Not sure how you managed that, for the near 40 years I’ve been a civil servant it’s been 6 (now 5) moths full pay 6 (now 5) months half pay then pension rate. 

It was two periods of six months, not 12 consecutive months. 

And at least 4 years apart per the rules. 

I don't know how the system works now but, at that time, in the civil service, one could take 12 (non-consecutive) months on sick leave on full pay within a four year period.

For a brief period, I was on sick pay at pension rate as I had exceeded the 12 months allowed within 4 years.

For all the talk we hear now, about "mental health", those were gentler times in many ways. 

nigelbb

saucer said:

nigelbb 

Unfortunately your arguments are based on an entirely false premise possibly to justify your own early retirement. 

Why would someone feel the need to ‘justify’ early retirement, particularly on a forum dedicated to money saving in the context of pension planning?

I didn't mean it in a pejorative way. I just meant that the self-justification was that their retirement age was the same as that for Mr Average.

sheslookinhot

saucer said:

nigelbb 

Unfortunately your arguments are based on an entirely false premise possibly to justify your own early retirement. 

Why would someone feel the need to ‘justify’ early retirement, particularly on a forum dedicated to money saving in the context of pension planning?

Some people would start a barney in an empty house