Time of Economy 7

valiant24

It's really important to me to know exactly when Economy 7 starts and ends, but it's absolutely beyond me to find this out.

Why is it important?: I've got an electric Aga.  I set a manual timer to charge it for 7 hours during Economy 7 (when I pay 14p/KWh, and it thus costs about 90p/hr).   When it's charging at Normal rate it's over 3 times the cost (about 44p/KWh or £2.82/hr).

In October I dashed out every 5 minutes in the rain and discovered that Economy 7 started at 0148 (0048 GMT).

Based on the advice of knowledgeable people here, I concluded that it probably started at 0048 every night,

But earlier this week I was out in the garden at 0722 and Economy 7 had already ended.

I have a smart meter from Octopus last night and last night, this time in the dry, I saw that Economy 7 started at 0046.  This morning it ended around 0725, as expected,

But here's the thing: the Smart meter started showing me this morning that the Next Tariff was starting in 40 minutes.   See attached picture.

So Octopus must know what the Economy 7 time is going to be.  Why can't I find out?!

Thanks
V

[Deleted User]

That's your in-home display, not your smart meter.  They're good for guidance but can't be guaranteed to be accurate.

valiant24

[Deleted User] said:

That's your in-home display, not your smart meter.  They're good for guidance but can't be guaranteed to be accurate.

In any respect, or just in terms of the 'Next Tariff' indicator (about which, incidentally, I can find nothing in the rather sparse Octopus Home Display documentation).

In terms of, for example, yesterday's consumption it accords exactly with what the Octopus portal recorded as my overall consumption.

Does the Smart Meter, would you know, itself "know" and/or record the Tariff change times?

Thanks
V

[Deleted User]

The smart meter itself would know - it's the one that decides whether to record usage as peak or off-peak, and is the thing used for billing.

Whether your display has been correctly updated is a different question. I can't imagine there have been any tariff changes recently, so that's a plus for it being correct, but then E7 times shouldn't really change and yours seem to be.

macman

Your E7 hours are set by the DNO. What region are you?
The old clockwork E7 meters could not adjust for GMT and BST, but I'm assuming that a smart meter can?

valiant24

Deleted_User said:

The smart meter itself would know - it's the one that decides whether to record usage as peak or off-peak, and is the thing used for billing.

Whether your display has been correctly updated is a different question. I can't imagine there have been any tariff changes recently, so that's a plus for it being correct, but then E7 times shouldn't really change and yours seem to be.

Yes they do seem to be wandering a lot.  I suppose I need to raise it with Octopus in the first instance?   But doing so is a triumph of hope over experience ...

Ideally I'd play safe and just program the AGA to run from, say, 0100 to 0700.  But that 5h 50m (the design of the timer for some unfathomable reason prevents you from setting a contiguous time period: there has to be a break between 0250 and 0300) isn't always enough to give the AGA enough charge and one of its enraging features is that if the core dips below some unprogramable temp it starts charging regardless, and at peak rate (known at home as "Doing the Naughty Thing").

I hate the AGA with a passion!

Thank you!

macman

I read somewhere that electric AGAS's are being decommissioned at a rate of knots, and nobody wants them for anything but scrap value, as they are so expensive to run.
What is the charged capacity?

Swipe

You can download your data in a csv from https://data.n3rgy.com/consumer/home and check the peak/ off peak times to the nearest 30 mins. Don't rely on the IHD. My IHD tariff change countdown doesn't even appear every single day.

Gerry1

Deleted_User said:

 E7 times shouldn't really change and yours seem to be.

Radio Teleswitch times can vary by ± 15 minutes for some customers, although most will remain fixed (although probably offset by a few minutes from the notional times). Don't know whether smart meters are similar, but presumably there are more possibilities.

If you have a 5-port meter, the best way to check the actual switching times is to have a switched E7 circuit outlet with an indicator light. (Ideally you'd run the AGA off a switched circuit and then you wouldn't have to worry !)

[Deleted User]

Gerry1 said:

Deleted_User said:

 E7 times shouldn't really change and yours seem to be.

Radio Teleswitch times can vary by ± 15 minutes for some customers, although most will remain fixed (although probably offset by a few minutes from the notional times). Don't know whether smart meters are similar, but presumably there are more possibilities.

If you have a 5-port meter, the best way to check the actual switching times is to have a switched E7 circuit outlet with an indicator light. (Ideally you'd run the AGA off a switched circuit and then you wouldn't have to worry !)

Yeah, fixed but offset is much more what I would expect. I guess there would be nothing in the rules that says smart meters couldn't vary but it would seem like an odd function.

Gerry1

Deleted_User said:

Gerry1 said:

Deleted_User said:

 E7 times shouldn't really change and yours seem to be.

Radio Teleswitch times can vary by ± 15 minutes for some customers, although most will remain fixed (although probably offset by a few minutes from the notional times). Don't know whether smart meters are similar, but presumably there are more possibilities.

If you have a 5-port meter, the best way to check the actual switching times is to have a switched E7 circuit outlet with an indicator light. (Ideally you'd run the AGA off a switched circuit and then you wouldn't have to worry !)

 I guess there would be nothing in the rules that says smart meters couldn't vary but it would seem like an odd function.

I'd expect it to be used quite a lot, as part of Demand Side Response.

If there's high national demand at the start of the E7 window then the start times would be put back to a time when the expected demand will be lower.  That wouldn't even be noticed by customers using switched E7 circuits, but could be prove expensive for those relying on 24-hour circuits and their own local timers.