Time of Economy 7

valiant24

dunstonh said:

It's really important to me to know exactly when Economy 7 starts and ends, but it's absolutely beyond me to find this out.

Your region will have a band for the start/end times.  And then there may be some spreading of around +/-30 minutes either said of it.

And this can vary day-by-day?
I know on the 2nd October it kicked in at 0048 GMT.
On 6th Dec E7 has finished by 0722.
On both 11th and 12th Dec E7 started at 0039.

It seems a surprisingly Moveable Feast!

valiant24

dunstonh said:

II have an electric AGA but no chance of getting rid of it.  The later electric ones work more like a conventional oven. I have the 30amp which is the economy 7 version.  it draws about 37 kWh per day.  If you are on a tariff that is 14p off peak then that is £5.18 a day.    Probably about £1.50 - £2.00 a day more than using a conventional hob/oven/kettle etc.  Add in the heat the AGA generates and your heating bill is slightly reduced for that room.  And include the clothing you can dry in front of it then its not much of a difference.   

For us, the AGA generates enough heat for the kitchen during the day.  A woodburner keeps the office warm and a second woodburner is started later in the day.    Those three items mean the central heating isnt needed and reduces the oil bill.

So, for most people, there is absolutely no need to get rid of the AGA.  If you are on E7 tariff that has a closer day/night ratio, then it wont be as attractive.  

An electric AGA is a luxury item but the more you use it for things, the less the cost difference is.        Going back to the articles saying people are ripping them out, I read those too, but it appeared it was people in metropolitan areas that had installed AGAs because they were fashionable and they were not making any where near full use of them.   Whereas those in rural areas where you have someone spending a lot of the day in the kitchen, they are much more effective.  Or putting it another way, an AGA is the right tool in the right place.   It is an expensive folly in the wrong place.

Although only bought in 2014, ours in an older model I am sure: it's identical to one that was already here, and quite elderly, when we moved in in 2005.

37kWh sounds about right.  Our "run-rate" usage at night time seems to be about 300Wh, and it is now (with the AGA charging) about 5.6kWh so (5.6 - 0.3) * 6.67 = 35.4kWh.  So yes approx cost is £5/night.  (Plus 5% VAT).

As previously detailed the two things I loathe about it:
1. It frequently goes wrong, with a new part needed that's just gone out of warranty since the last time I bought one!   I think we paid about £8k for the AGA in 2014, and we're approaching £4k since then on servicing and repair.
2, If it decides it's not enough it starts taking charge at peak rate.  That is then £2.30/hr.   I understand why it does it, but you should be able to override it or prevent it happening.  As it is if we notice it we have to turn the AGA off and hope to be up to turn it on again at E7 o'clock.

valiant24

Swipe said:

valiant24 said:

Swipe said:

You can download your data in a csv from https://data.n3rgy.com/consumer/home and check the peak/ off peak times to the nearest 30 mins. Don't rely on the IHD. My IHD tariff change countdown doesn't even appear every single day.

Hi.  Thanks for your interest.  I'd love to progress this.  But I'm out of my depth.  I have no idea what an MPxN is (as required in your link), nor what is an IHD.
Thanks!
V

MPAN is the unique number for your meter (you can get it off your bill), IHD is the In House display gadget you get with a smart meter

I've connected the n3rgy portal and downloaded my data.  I'm not how it's helping me see the E7 times though?

In the "Tariff" file it has one line, whose only populated field shows (accurately) the Standing Charge.

Thanks
V

Swipe

valiant24 said:

Swipe said:

valiant24 said:

Swipe said:

You can download your data in a csv from https://data.n3rgy.com/consumer/home and check the peak/ off peak times to the nearest 30 mins. Don't rely on the IHD. My IHD tariff change countdown doesn't even appear every single day.

Hi.  Thanks for your interest.  I'd love to progress this.  But I'm out of my depth.  I have no idea what an MPxN is (as required in your link), nor what is an IHD.
Thanks!
V

MPAN is the unique number for your meter (you can get it off your bill), IHD is the In House display gadget you get with a smart meter

I've connected the n3rgy portal and downloaded my data.  I'm not how it's helping me see the E7 times though?

In the "Tariff" file it has one line, whose only populated field shows (accurately) the Standing Charge.

Thanks
V

How about the consumption file? The numbers of units should increase considerably when it reaches off peak. If that file is also empty, your smart meter is not reporting correctly. You will need to inform your supplier and I'd be submitting regular manual readings

dunstonh

And this can vary day-by-day?

Digital meters and smart meters should not change.   Once you know your start/end time, it should remain at that.     (digital meters with faulty timers excluded).  Radio switch ones can by small amounts.

As previously detailed the two things I loathe about it:
1. It frequently goes wrong, with a new part needed that's just gone out of warranty since the last time I bought one!   I think we paid about £8k for the AGA in 2014, and we're approaching £4k since then on servicing and repair.

They do have persistent issues with circuit boards, elements, fans and the thermometer.       Ours has had two fans, two thermometers and one element section.     Luckily, the version we have has independent element banks and is easy and cheaper to change.        We have only just gone over a thousand pounds on servicing and repairs despite those failures and a servicing every other year.

Our service engineer is an independent.   He uses the uprated versions of parts, where possible (i.e. the heavy duty versions).  So, they should have more life in them.  AGA used to use heavy-duty ones as default but cost cutting over the years saw some parts shift to lower quality (and often back to higher quality in later versions due to the number of failures).       He also was able to get some mercury thermometers, and that has been fine ever since (they are not allowed to be made in this country anymore but you can source them from abroad).

The failures nearly always occur when people turn it off for summer and then back on in Autumn.  The high temperature they run at, then the cooling followed by returning to high temperature again plays havoc with solder and elements.   

I read somewhere recently that an alternative option to turning it off is to set the dial to the lowest setting in Summer.   It will still draw some but it should shut off and not draw over the full 7 hours.   You turn it up about 2 hours before you need to use it and then turn it down again.    I am sceptical as although they are meant to shut off if they get up to the required temperature, I have never seen mine stop charging.

2, If it decides it's not enough it starts taking charge at peak rate.  That is then £2.30/hr.   I understand why it does it, but you should be able to override it or prevent it happening.  As it is if we notice it we have to turn the AGA off and hope to be up to turn it on again at E7 o'clock.

The naughty light is a pain.    Although, apart from when you turn it back on after Summer, you shouldn't see it again and if you do, you pretty much know you have a broken element in one of your element banks.

valiant24

Swipe said:

How about the consumption file? The numbers of units should increase considerably when it reaches off peak. If that file is also empty, your smart meter is not reporting correctly. You will need to inform your supplier and I'd be submitting regular manual readings

This is a circular argument though!   The consumption does indeed increase considerably when the AGA comes on ... but the AGA only comes on because I have programmed it to come on when I think the Economy 7 rate might be starting!

valiant24

dunstonh said:

And this can vary day-by-day?

Digital meters and smart meters should not change.   Once you know your start/end time, it should remain at that.     (digital meters with faulty timers excluded).  Radio switch ones can by small amounts.

As previously detailed the two things I loathe about it:
1. It frequently goes wrong, with a new part needed that's just gone out of warranty since the last time I bought one!   I think we paid about £8k for the AGA in 2014, and we're approaching £4k since then on servicing and repair.

They do have persistent issues with circuit boards, elements, fans and the thermometer.       Ours has had two fans, two thermometers and one element section.     Luckily, the version we have has independent element banks and is easy and cheaper to change.        We have only just gone over a thousand pounds on servicing and repairs despite those failures and a servicing every other year.

Our service engineer is an independent.   He uses the uprated versions of parts, where possible (i.e. the heavy duty versions).  So, they should have more life in them.  AGA used to use heavy-duty ones as default but cost cutting over the years saw some parts shift to lower quality (and often back to higher quality in later versions due to the number of failures).       He also was able to get some mercury thermometers, and that has been fine ever since (they are not allowed to be made in this country anymore but you can source them from abroad).

The failures nearly always occur when people turn it off for summer and then back on in Autumn.  The high temperature they run at, then the cooling followed by returning to high temperature again plays havoc with solder and elements.   

I read somewhere recently that an alternative option to turning it off is to set the dial to the lowest setting in Summer.   It will still draw some but it should shut off and not draw over the full 7 hours.   You turn it up about 2 hours before you need to use it and then turn it down again.    I am sceptical as although they are meant to shut off if they get up to the required temperature, I have never seen mine stop charging.

2, If it decides it's not enough it starts taking charge at peak rate.  That is then £2.30/hr.   I understand why it does it, but you should be able to override it or prevent it happening.  As it is if we notice it we have to turn the AGA off and hope to be up to turn it on again at E7 o'clock.

The naughty light is a pain.    Although, apart from when you turn it back on after Summer, you shouldn't see it again and if you do, you pretty much know you have a broken element in one of your element banks.

1. As detailed above, my start/end times have been observed to have varied between nn20 and nn48 just since the start of October.  I have changed supplier since then, but my understand previously was that Economy 7 times are set by the distributor and not the supplier.

2. Well I'm thrilled to hear that your newer version is cheaper and more reliable! ;-)

3. There don't seem to be any independents in the SW.  As it is the official AGA suppliers have either to come to us from Exeter or Chard, both of which are an hour away, so we're smacked with £100 call out before the engineer even sips his tea.

4. The dial only affects the fan.  Yes if the fan's off it'll draw a little more, but it's maybe £5 per night instead of £6, whereas turning it off altogether is £0.  And, even with the fan on 0, it's insufferably hot come Summer.

The AGA last did the naughty thing on Tuesday.  It's a not infrequent occurrence, and it's enraging that you can't disable it.

Cheers!

Swipe

valiant24 said:

Swipe said:

How about the consumption file? The numbers of units should increase considerably when it reaches off peak. If that file is also empty, your smart meter is not reporting correctly. You will need to inform your supplier and I'd be submitting regular manual readings

This is a circular argument though!   The consumption does indeed increase considerably when the AGA comes on ... but the AGA only comes on because I have programmed it to come on when I think the Economy 7 rate might be starting!

Yes, sorry I've replied to too many E7 threads. I missed that you had it manually timed.

Ishepherd_mse

Not easy to find economy 7 times. it varies by region and distribution company.
Have a look at can-you-tell-me-my-day-night-switching-times-for-economy-7 on OVO forum 
I found Economy 7 caped rates vary a lot by supplier. I saved over £500 by switching

Oysterseeker

I have the old style clock system...they took the radio linked one out  ....so time drifts but at least I can clearly see when it switches from night to day rate. I run around the house switching heaters on and off, boiling kettles, doing washing. Pot of tea made at 7.35 winter, 8.35 summer...it switches at 7/8.42..so no way could I handle the inconsistency outlined by you all here and I'm avoiding a smart meter like the plague. East Midlands.