Van Manufactured with Wrong Engine; Insurance Void?

CoastingHatbox

Hello,

Trying to keep this brief and understandable:

• Purchased van three years ago - listed as Peugeot Partner BlueHDI 100.
• When insured, I was told the van was a Peugeot Partner L1 625 BlueHDI 75. This seemed consistent with it having a 5 speed, as opposed to 6 speed gearbox.
• Consequently, I've had the van insured as a Peugeot Partner L1 625 BlueHDI 75.
• Doing some work on the van last weekend, I noticed the engine model number. This number indicates BlueHDI 100 (DV6FD).
• I checked the VIN and engine numbers on V5C. They match all the numbers on the van.
• VIN include 3 characters to identify engine. Those three characters (BHW) indicate BlueHDI 75 (DV6FE).
  
• Engine number contains 3 characters to identify engine. Those three characters (BHB) indicate BlueHDI 100 (DV6FD).
• There's no sign the engine has ever been replaced.
• I have service manual filled in by original supplying dealer that specifies 100 HP engine.
• I have contacted original dealer; they couldn't really offer any insight and they asked me to bring the van in (some 60-odd miles away).

I think the likely conclusion here, given all the other information on the V5C is accurate, is that the van was manufactured with the wrong engine and consequently does not match any known listed variant the insurance companies have.

The BlueHDI 100 received an uprated back axle and consequently has different designation (Partner 854 BlueHDI 100 as opposed to Partner 625 BlueHDI 75) and different values for mass in service/max permissable mass. AFAIK (taking V5C at face value) my van does not have the uprated back axle.

My present insurer are now refusing to renew my existing policy. Does that mean the existing policy is effectively void?

I could pretend to be ignorant and just continue to insure the van as a BlueHDI 75, but if ever I'm involved in an accident and the van is assessed, I am concerned this anomoly will quickly come to light and it will leave me in hot water.

I can't find any stories of the manufacturer using DV6FD engines in lieu of DV6FE engines and re-mapping them to reduce power output.
As an aside, these engines are themselves almost identical, albeit with different turbochargers.

Manxman_in_exile

Is your present insurer's refusal to renew because of this, or are they refusing for some other reason?

CoastingHatbox

Manxman_in_exile said:

Is your present insurer's refusal to renew because of this, or are they refusing for some other reason?

Yes. It literally boils down to the fact they don't have a matching vehicle in their list (N.B. the vehicle is not a recognised derivative)

CoastingHatbox

I've had a quote for renewal from another insurer who advised although it is not a modified vehicle, they would have to cover it as a modified vehicle.

The premium is double but just south of £400 so it's not that big of a deal.

Renewal is not until the end of December. In the meantime is the van in effect uninsured?

jimjames

CoastingHatbox said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Is your present insurer's refusal to renew because of this, or are they refusing for some other reason?

Yes. It literally boils down to the fact they don't have a matching vehicle in their list (N.B. the vehicle is not a recognised derivative)

How did they know? Had you informed them that engine was different BHP? I'm not sure how an average driver would be expected to know the difference and would rely on the paperwork provided with the vehicle, V5 and service book. If those all say the same thing and engine has not been replaced then I can't see an issue with an insurance claim.

SergeantBaker

CoastingHatbox said:

I've had a quote for renewal from another insurer who advised although it is not a modified vehicle, they would have to cover it as a modified vehicle.

The premium is double but just south of £400 so it's not that big of a deal.

Renewal is not until the end of December. In the meantime is the van in effect uninsured?

You need to ask the insurance company that question?

CoastingHatbox

SergeantBaker said:

CoastingHatbox said:

I've had a quote for renewal from another insurer who advised although it is not a modified vehicle, they would have to cover it as a modified vehicle.

The premium is double but just south of £400 so it's not that big of a deal.

Renewal is not until the end of December. In the meantime is the van in effect uninsured?

You need to ask the insurance company that question?

I think you are probably right. And on technicality, the answer is going to be no.

jimjames said:

CoastingHatbox said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Is your present insurer's refusal to renew because of this, or are they refusing for some other reason?

Yes. It literally boils down to the fact they don't have a matching vehicle in their list (N.B. the vehicle is not a recognised derivative)

How did they know? Had you informed them that engine was different BHP? I'm not sure how an average driver would be expected to know the difference and would rely on the paperwork provided with the vehicle, V5 and service book. If those all say the same thing and engine has not been replaced then I can't see an issue with an insurance claim.

Being conscientious I told them. I think the average driver would know something was amiss when they buy a vehicle purported to be one thing but on trying to insure it being advised it was another. I'm kind of kicking myself now for not investigating it further at the time - especially given the vehicle was bought on HP (I paid off the finance as soon as I was able to).

I think the insurance claim thing is debatable and probably depends on the insurer and assessor at the time. I think it is fair to say, in effect, this is a modified vehicle.

DullGreyGuy

Did you buy the van new or secondhand?

What is the descriptor on the V5? 

What are the differences between the two engines in real terms not just names? Are they the same CC? 

If you put the reg into https://van.confused.com/van/vandetails what does it come up with?

CoastingHatbox said:
I think it is fair to say, in effect, this is a modified vehicle.

Not sure thats necessarily true... for car insurance most insurers only consider a modification if its done post manufacture. For the couple of insurers that I worked with that did Van they mirrored the same mentality across. Id be relatively confident many others are the same but havent actually done analysis to be certain. 

Car_54

CoastingHatbox said:

My present insurer are now refusing to renew my existing policy. Does that mean the existing policy is effectively void?

No. The renewal is a separate contract. If your present policy was void they would have had to tell you explicitly.

bengalknights

• When insured, I was told the van was a Peugeot Partner L1 625 BlueHDI 75. This seemed consistent with it having a 5 speed, as opposed to 6 speed gearbox.

This is where the issue lies, when they told you it was a BlueHDI75 you should have stated it is a HDI100 regardless of what they think it was or what you think it is. It is what the manufacturer have stated on any documents that is the model.

I once had this issue back when the Seat Leon 1.5 models was not on the list, they wanted to put it through as 1.4SE i corrected them and made them manually change it to 1.5 xcellence.

The current insurance company should requote based on the actual model it is, any new insurers should also do as such.

Grey_Critic

**I think the likely conclusion here, given all the other information on the V5C is accurate, is that the van was manufactured with the wrong engine**

That is your opinion and as with the insurance company comments meaningless - You need to speak with Peugeot - they are the people who manufactured the vehicle - and will have detailed records.

They are the only people who can prove/disprove your ideas and will be able to put in writing exactly what it is.

There is the legality of the vehicle complying with Construction and Use regulations and licences.

You will probably have to take the vehicle to a nominated dealer for them to carry out an inspection of various items including serial and build codes and report back to the technical department at Peugeot.

I have carried out similar *initial inspections* in the past and reported back.